风萧萧_Frank
以文会友
该如何描述当代中国《华邮》评论文章惹争议
Melissa Chan的评论指出:“威权主义也被用来描述匈牙利、土耳其这些在退步的民主国家。这让人很难觉得该词（用来描述中国）是足够的、准确的。如果记者、政治家等不能完全自如地将整个国家描述为法西斯，那么他们应该考虑将中国国家的某些元素称为法西斯主义。” @melissakchan https://t.co/AC6hAggKyz DW 中文- 德国之声 (@dw_chinese) February 2, 2022
中国是专制国家、威权国家、或者极权国家？还是这些称谓已经不足以描述当下的中国？《华盛顿邮报》近日的一篇评论文章关注了这一话题，呼吁将中国称作“法西斯国家”。这篇文章在社交媒体上引发热烈讨论。不少人表示，文中描述听起来“更像是美国”。
资深记者Melissa Chan1月31日在《华盛顿邮报》发表了题为一篇《中国经常被称作“威权主义”，感觉这并不够》的评论文章，其中对于新闻报道中经常将中国称为“威权国家”的做法提出质疑，表示应该考虑“将中国称作法西斯国家”，称中国正迅速朝着这个方向发展。
这篇评论文章写道：“有人会说，（中国）共产主义基础使其与法西斯的右翼根源从根本上不相容。……但要考虑法西斯主义的标志：一个监视国家，一个政治强人，在国内煽动种族主义、民族主义和传统价值观，同时为向海外扩张建立军队。”作者表示，她作为一名曾经在中国工作、如今在柏林写作的记者，“我发现很难对今日中国与旧日德国遥相呼应这一点视而不见”。
文章作者Melissa Chan（中文名陈嘉韵）是一位美籍华人记者。她在2007年至2012年间担任半岛电视台驻华记者，进行了大量关于中国的报导。2012年5月，中国当局拒绝延长她的签证，她被迫离开中国。Melissa Chan目前为包括德国之声、《华盛顿邮报》、《外交政策》在内的多家媒体担任记者和撰稿人。
这篇发表于《华盛顿邮报》的评论文章还指出，人们可能在描述当代中国时缺乏合适的术语，但也应该在措辞时重新思考。她说：“威权主义也被用来描述匈牙利、土耳其这些在退步的民主国家。这让人很难觉得该词（用来描述中国）是足够的、准确的。如果记者、政治家等不能完全自如地将整个国家描述为法西斯，那么他们应该考虑将中国国家的某些元素称为法西斯主义。”
究竟是谁体现了“法西斯精髓”？
Melissa Chan在她的个人推特上也贴出了这篇评论文章的链接。该推特目前的设定是只有作者关注或者提到的人可以直接在推文下方回复评论。截至发稿，这条推特得到近一千次赞（Likes）和700多次转发。
My piece: Is it time to consider a word other than "authoritarian" to describe China? "Fascism: a surveillance state with a strongman invoking racism, nationalism and traditional family values at home, while building up a military for expansion abroad." https://t.co/zASmmVpCzM Melissa Chan (@melissakchan) January 31, 2022
其中多条在转发评论时提到了美国。其中一位写道：“煽动种族主义并且向海外扩军的监控国家？你是说美国？“另一位说：“这听起来就像美国。你是知道的，对吧？”
还有一位评论道：“我其实不明白你为何每天都攻击中国。中国当然有很多自己的问题，但其精力主要放在国内生产和能源建设上。而美国却通过发动战争和颜色革命，来转移其国内矛盾”。这条推文获得了超过1000个赞。
Actually I don't understand why you attack China every day. China of course has many problems of its own, but while China's main focus is on domestic production & energy construction,the US is deflecting its own domestic conflicts by waging wars & color revolutions against others. https://t.co/LdYZLkNDAe (@MoMoSaSa22) January 31, 2022
类似评论也来自一些有一定公众影响力的人物。例如，英国时评人福迪（Tom Fowdy）写道：“这听起来其实更像是美国的情况。”电影制片人Richard Woolley写道：“这是关于美国，而不是中国”，指责美国对于战争的狂热体现了“法西斯精髓”。
下面这条推特写道“这些西方媒体的宣传者是如此无知”，表示文中形容监控国家的部分是“对美国的完美描述，美国的法西斯主义特性远胜过中国”。该推文来自在推特上有超过18万关注者的记者本杰明·诺顿（Benjamin Norton）。诺顿的这条推文获得近千次点赞。
These Western media propagandists are so oblivious
"Surveillance state invoking racism, nationalism and traditional family values at home, while building up a military for expansion abroad" is a perfect description of the **USA**, which is much, much more fascistic than China https://t.co/iOAu9yrtJd Benjamin Norton (@BenjaminNorton) February 1, 2022
也有人指出，这是在妖魔化中国。Arnaud Bertrand讽刺地模仿《华盛顿邮报》的口吻写道：“在中国春节之际、在美国的华裔经历了创纪录水平的反华情绪、种族主义的时候，为什么不把对中国的妖魔化再提高一个级别呢？听起来是一件健康的事情。“根据其推特个人介绍，这位博主生活在上海，拥有一个介绍中医的网站，热爱中国。
“威权是上世纪的事情了”
与此同时，也有支持Melissa Chan的声音。在推特上有超过23万关注者的专栏作者、经济学者史密斯（Noah Smith）转发评论道：“是的，中国政府目前是非常右翼的，这看起来很明显。民族国家主义、领土收复主义、促进传统价值观、社团主义……很难想象哪些元素不符合对二战时期‘法西斯主义’的经典定义。”
Yes, it seems pretty clear that China's government is currently very rightist. Ethnonationalism, irredentist expansionism, promotion of traditional values, corporatism...it's hard to think of any elements that don't fit the classic WW2-era definition of "fascism". https://t.co/gAhmLmFMXw Noah Smith (@Noahpinion) February 1, 2022
美国著名的中国问题专家孔杰荣(Jerome Cohen)也转发了华邮的这篇文章，评论表示“Melissa Chan写了一篇很棒的文章，值得最广泛的传播”。
孔杰荣还写道：“关于中国，‘威权’那是20世纪的事情了！普京的俄罗斯是当今‘威权’的一个好例子。在那里，一些人还是可以写作并且做一些事情，而这些事情在习近平的中国即便是一两小时也不会被允许。今日的香港是处于什么阶段？明年呢？”
With respect to China, “authoritarian” is so 20th century! Putin’s Russia is a good example of “authoritarian” today. Some people still manage to write and do things there that wouldn’t be allowed for an hour or two in Xi Jinping’s China. At what stage is HK today? Next year? 2/2 Jerome Cohen 孔杰荣(柯恩) (@jeromeacohen) February 1, 2022
<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>
Opinion: China isn’t just ‘authoritarian’ any more. It’s scarier.
A picture of Chinese President Xi Jinping is seen on a large screen during an even at Beijing's National Stadium on June 28, 2021. (Noel Celis/AFP via Getty Images)
By Melissa Chan
January 31, 2022 at 11:03 a.m. EST
Melissa Chan is a journalist covering transnational issues often involving China’s influence beyond its borders. She is based in Berlin.
In 2009, when I began to more frequently describe China as “authoritarian” as a broadcast correspondent for Al Jazeera English, some editors pushed back, believing it was too much editorializing. We have since become more comfortable with regularly using the designation, in media coverage and beyond. But as journalists and athletes head to Beijing for the Winter Olympics, it may be time to reassess and consider calling the Chinese state what it is fast becoming: a fascist one.
When the facts change, it’s time to change our minds — and our language. Ahead of the 2008 Summer Games in Beijing, international media knew China was authoritarian and described it as such when necessary, but entire articles concerning China’s political system were written without mentioning it. The government had issued regulations allowing the foreign press corps to travel freely around the country, a departure from years of tight control. And the people we met on these trips, many working as labor campaigners or rights lawyers, pointed the way to a new, transformative Chinese generation.
Authorities then started locking up the activists they once championed. The country decoupled from the world’s popular social media platforms, blocking Facebook, Google, Twitter and others. Police began aggressively surveilling news teams, sometimes waiting in cars at the airport before we even landed. My decision to regularly use “authoritarian” reflected that shift.
Now, we should consider nomenclature once again.
Some will argue the country’s communist foundation makes it fundamentally incompatible with fascism’s right-wing roots. The respected Chinese legal scholar Teng Biao prefers calling the country totalitarian.
But consider the hallmarks of fascism: a surveillance state with a strongman invoking racism, nationalism and traditional family values at home, while building up a military for expansion abroad.
Xi Jinping, a leader who has elevated himself to the level of Mao Zedong, has built a cult of personality around him, complete with portraits in public and private spaces. Propaganda recalls China’s glorious history while bewailing its past treatment by Western imperial powers, allowing Beijing to play both the nationalism and victim cards. As a correspondent formerly based in China and now writing from Berlin, I find it difficult to ignore how much China’s present echoes Germany’s past.
Painted portraits of Chinese President Xi Jinping and late communist leader Mao Zedong at a market in Beijing on Sept. 19, 2017. (AFP via Getty Images)
To right perceived wrongs, Xi has a clear revanchist agenda. Taiwan has become his Alsace-Lorraine, the Himalayan border with India his Polish Corridor, and Hong Kong his Sudetenland. With military or strong-arm tactics, he has made clear that moves to control these areas are not off the table. In addition, Beijing has reportedly moved into Bhutanese territory. China also claims most of the South China Sea, where it has built military outposts marked by its own “nine-dash line” that, on a map, protrudes far beyond Chinese land borders in a Lebensraum-like expansion.
21st-century technology has provided the Chinese Communist Party surveillance capabilities that 20th-century fascists could only dream of. Facial recognition cameras work to track 1.4 billion people, invading even public bathrooms to stop toilet paper theft. The state, with coordination from its technology giants, controls and tracks messages and content d between smartphones.
Surveillance cameras operate in Shanghai on Jan. 8. (Qilai Shen/Bloomberg News)
No entity operates freely from the CCP, including these technology champions. Companies may chase profit margins like other capitalist enterprises, but party officials step in when they see an overriding state interest. Those who fail to fall in line are felled — the most spectacular example being billionaire tech magnate Jack Ma, who disappeared for months after criticizing the country’s financial regulators. Together with Beijing’s anti-union, anti-labor stance, the Chinese economy today recalls Mussolini’s corporatist fascism.
The state has also become fixated on machismo, another fascist obsession. It bans what it considers “effeminate” behavior, which it associates with the LGBTQ community, where activists have also faced increasing government reprisal. It exhorts men and women to procreate, in a sharp reversal of Beijing’s decades-long one-child policy. It has invaded citizens’ most private spheres to do so, even attempting to bolster male virility by clamping down on vasectomies.
Critically, Beijing targets ethnic Han Chinese in this campaign — in its eyes, the “master race.” Against minorities, most troublingly against Muslim Uyghurs, the state has sought to prevent births, including by using extreme measures such as forced sterilization. Its treatment of Uyghurs, not as citizens but rather a problem to be dealt with, has led to the establishment of hundreds of reeducation camps that experts say constitute the largest detention of ethnic and religious minorities since World War II. The legislatures of several democracies have called what’s happening genocide.
Paramilitary police officers patrol in the aftermath of riots as Uyghur men walk by in Urumqi, Xinjiang, in July 2009. (Eugene Hoshiko/AP)
A guard tower and barbed wire fence surround a detention facility in the Kunshan Industrial Park in Artux, Xinjiang, on Dec. 3, 2018. (Ng Han Guan/AP)
Taken together, “authoritarian” — used to also describe declining democratic states such as Hungary and Turkey — hardly feels enough, nor does it feel accurate. That is a disservice to the public. Journalists, politicians and others should consider calling elements of the Chinese state fascistic, if they are not entirely comfortable describing the state writ large as fascist.
We may be facing an absence of existing terminology to properly describe contemporary China. But that behooves us to rethink our vocabulary and not dismiss the f-word out of hand.
This conversation is moderated according to The Post's community rules. Please read the rules before joining the discussion. If you’re experiencing any technical problems, please contact our customer care team.
Tab:
All Comments
(
571
)
Sort byexpand_more
jaysimkin
56 minutes ago
China's problem: the Communist Party of China's (CPC) embraces a hate-based political philosophy, Marxism-Leninism (M-L). M-L does not fit a country that is modern, prosperous, and with global influence.
President Xi Jinping, a genocidal murderer, has taken China back to the fear-based governance of founder Mao Zedong (1949-76). Mao's opponents fared poorly.
Fear explains why Beijing was blind-sided by COVID-19. Some in Wuhan knew a new disease had emerged and tried to sound an alarm. They were silenced by fearful seniors and the police. COVID-19 spread in China and thence globally.
Fear drives repression of Hong Kong residents, who like Rule of Law. The CPC rejects any limits on its authority and views Hong Kong as a cancer, that must be killed to prevent its spread.
Even more does the CPC want to eliminate Taiwan, where Chinese vote in free and fair elections. The CPC claims regaining Taiwan is about "national unity". But China has prospered without controlling Taiwan. If - H-eaven forbid - an earthquake sank Taiwan - China would be no less prosperous.
Chinese live better than did any of their ancestors, in the 5,000 years there have been polities in what's now China. The CPC likely would get 60-65% of the vote in a free and fair election. The CPC is too scared to risk an election.
After Mao, the CPC ditched M-L's plainly-failed economics, which kept China poor. The CPC clings to M-L's hate-based political monopoly and has become a millstone around Chinese necks.
EcstaticAlligator
6 hours ago
Where were you from 2017 to 2021, Melissa?
While the MSM was trying to "normalize" an authoritarian in America. ????
Democracy Dies In Hypocrisy
7 hours ago
This is in today's Washington Post by George F. Well: "Opinion: Donald Trump and Boris Johnson have much in common, with one vital, deflating difference". He concluded, "This total indifference to evidence is today’s “American exceptionalism.” This is particularly applicable to the author of this piece, Melissa Chan, who only references hoax, false similarity, insinuation and exaggeration. Disgraceful.
thumb_up1replyReply
Victoria W.
7 hours ago
Find us similar critiques of China's leaders in mainland Chinese media, and you'll be less liable (slightly) to charges of hypocrisy.
Go on. We're waiting.
Democracy Dies In Hypocrisy
7 hours ago
Not until you read this evidence that proves Huji Turdi was chairman of the Uyghur American Association, which takes huge amount of money from the NED, and make your apology for wrongfully accusing me of lying. This is a moral mandate, in case you don't know. Yes, basic decency matters the most. I will be waiting.
http://uyguristan.20m.com/help.html
Victoria W.
7 hours ago
make your apology for wrongfully accusing me of lying.
I don't tend to apologise for things I never did.
thumb_up1replyReply
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
aifuyou
7 hours ago
We tend to believe that this menacing fascist state is faraway on the other side of the world. It is not.
It has been and are increasing their pace to bribe and corrupt our political and business leaders into selling out to them.
It has been and are even more ferociously sending their trolls to swarm like locusts blacking out the sun in social media outlets such as YouTube, Twitter, and TicTuc.
Unbeknownst to most, we have been living in a Chinese fascist world. And it is not alarmist to say humanity is in unprecedent peril because we have never faced such a menace before.
The crucial difference of the Chinese fascists from their Italian and German forefathers is that they have infiltrated every aspect of our society and are feeding on our strength and weakness alike.
biolook
8 hours ago
Gee. Did anyone ever thought about what is happening to Chinese American scientists in this country. Many of them charged and arrested on flimsy charges per FBI's China Initiative. When something looks like a duck and quark like a duck it is a duck. So to many Chinese Americans we are living in a "totalitarian" state now.
thumb_up1replyReply
SundayInThePark
7 hours ago
. . . If they are not doing industrial or government spying, they are mostly not going to suffer. Yes as a group Chinese-born folk in the US are subject to higher scrutiny. Given the number of proved cases, is that not rational?
thumb_up2replyReply
Daniel Calto
5 hours ago
This is a reasonable point, but many of these cases have failed at the prosecution stage and the Biden Administration is likely to substantially change this flawed initiative imminently. Where are the corresponding corrective mechanisms in the Chinese state, where universities do not even function independently of state control and ideological scrubbing, and large chunks of relevant topics like Constitutional law are entirely off-limits in the classroom?
Southfranconian_Brigand
11 hours ago
Our man in Havana, hard of hearing.
Our woman in Berlin staring at the eye of the Asian tiger.
Dispatches from the frontlines.
A kitchen sink's worth of ill-defined buzzwords and yet a complete miss.
So what if we change labels to suit our need for more convenient cabinet drawers - does that inform actions any different, for better or worse?
"But consider the hallmarks of fascism: a surveillance state with a strongman invoking racism, nationalism and traditional family values at home, while building up a military for expansion abroad."
But - are they?
"The hallmarks of fascism", that is?
Indicating something so genuinely different from any other period of feudal rule in China's long history or even the rest of the planet's human evolution?
Entirely new concepts all these mentioned aren't, not even 'fascism' or 'communism' - whatever these are supposed to be these days.
"Fascism!"
Mussolini was just more precise in reformulating the old for the exciting future of the industrial age.
China's 'model of governance' may not necessarily be 'fascism' anymore than is the running of a fake democracy, permeated by deeply ingrained racism, allegiance pledged to the daily, ruled by minority dark money in tight cooperation with a manipulated, captured, non-representative two-party system backed by a corrupted 'rule of law', and protected by a tight weave of 'national security', expanded through the ruthless application of financial and military threat and coercion.
The only thing missing there is the return of the "strongman" to his golden toilet ...
Now what?
Don't watch the Olympic Games ...?
Don't shop at Amazon and Walmart ...?
Raise the defense budget another 100 billion ...?
thumb_up1replyReply
SundayInThePark
6 hours ago
Focus: Call their government by the adjectives you prefer, but act as if they are more an opponent than an ally! Some things are trivia, some matter.
Dubbelosix
11 hours ago
China has been consistently....well... China. US Administrations come and go, Brexit happened, USSR rose and fell, etc, etc. China is still chugging along. Why do we keep pretending we can effect change in China? Would i want to live under the Chinese regime?....nope, but i believe 100 years from now, China will still be a communist regime
Democracy Dies In Hypocrisy
7 hours ago
Except that China is communist country in name only. Their goal of "common prosperity" will succeed, just like their total eradication of poverty did, since the country is strongly united without political manipulations by the rich. Their democratic socialism makes democratic capitalism look like a jungle full of predators.
Independent_Veteran
3 hours ago
You think Xi and his party chairmen are not the rich that you have been subjected to?!
Ha! Ha!
dc
11 hours ago
Hard to know what Chinese people really think… honestly how many will speak openly/honestly about their government, especially if they’re against it?
lj-68
11 hours ago
They can’t. They’ll never risk doing so openly. Look at Jack Ma who made critical comments and was disappeared for months. He was high profile. My friends are nobodies and know that speaking out would get them in trouble.
On Chinese social media you can’t even talk about certain topics (non political) without either having your post deleted or your account muted.
thumb_up3replyReply
Democracy Dies In Hypocrisy
7 hours ago
Don't guess. Read this Harvard Kennedy School report that shows 90%+ Chinese support their government. If you know Chinese language, browse their social media to see for yourself. They criticize government but shun rant insurrection. They're wise.
dc
5 hours ago
I think that study is tainted. It didn't include surveying migrant workers, who constitute a nontrivial fraction of China's labor base. Also, the surveys were done in-person with the help of a "private" research firm. Since, no firm is truly private (i.e. all are controlled by the Party), the concern about citizens speaking freely is still an issue. Finally, the results too lopsided to believe. I've reviewed enough surveys to know that 90-95% satisfaction on a topic so broad implies poorly formulated questions and/or the surveyed people weren't really answering truthfully.
thumb_up1replyReply
Democracy Dies In Hypocrisy
4 hours ago
OK. Deny everything unless it's agreeable to you. Harvard Kennedy School probably should learn something from you.
Gil Sara
11 hours ago
I've been calling them "Fascist China" for 10 years. Franco, Mussolini and Hitler would be drooling to have China's total control over the population.
thumb_up1replyReply
Normal Andrew
12 hours ago
For anyone positing that "maybe the Chinese system isn't so bad afterall," remember this. FREE SPEECH DOES NOT EXIST IN CHINA. And by extension, neither does free thought. It's not a system we or anyone else want to model ourselves after. Nothing against the Chinese people themselves, they are victims of the crime syndicate they have for a government.
thumb_up2replyReply
lj-68
11 hours ago
Not only that, China has a system of either hauling you away (think Jack Ma and a couple other billionaires) or utilizing social death which leaves you unable to participate in anyway in Chinese society. That’s way more significant than it sounds.
All without a trial.
thumb_up1replyReply
Democracy Dies In Hypocrisy
7 hours ago
Jack Ma is free without any restrictions. Do you think the US would allow Ant Group to go public with the intent to replace the Federal Reserve?
"Other Chinese billionaires"? Like those criminals who fled to the US with their ill-gained wealth? One prominent example would be Steve Bannon's buddy, Guo Wen-Gui. Wonder why there are so many super rich Chinese around jacking up real estate prices? We welcome them with open arms only because they are rich enemies of our enemy.
ThirdPlanetFromTheSun
12 hours ago
(Edited)
Since the change in editor-in-chief, there seems to be a coordinated effort to drift toward the West Coast libertarian mindset that seems to have taken control of the Silicon Valley mindset.
Anything that violates their need for absolute freedom "to break things" now is considered authoritarian. Despite terms being bandied about, the reality is that places like FL and AZ are not truly "conservative". They are "libertarian". Along the way, they have devolved into a weak form of anarchism and have infected other areas of the country.
The way I view the political spectrum is that it is not a line but a circle. The thing I have observed over decades is that the opposing ends often meet: they use the same tactics (media messaging, manipulating the political / legal system, etc). Despite denials, they will each try to "purify" the population.
These extreme opposite ends of the spectrum will be the ones fighting with each other and anyone else in the middle is caught in the crossfire. People do not remember their history very well: WWII was not only about Nazism. During that same period of the 1930s and 1940s (the era leading up to and including WWII and its immediate aftermath) as well as the 1950s Cold War era, the U.S. was not only dealing with Nazis, they were also dealing with Communism.
But as always the case, history does not repeat but it rhymes. People should be clear what roles that nations (and factions within nations) play in that global stage. The conclusion you will arrive at may not be all that flattering.
thumb_up1replyReply
lj-68
11 hours ago
You’re in the wrong article
thumb_up2replyReply
ThirdPlanetFromTheSun
9 hours ago
(Edited)
And you genius is who exactly?
Don Smith
12 hours ago
(Edited)
Just being part of the master race is not enough . You must also be born in China , reside there and support the CCP . Chinese Americans visiting or living in the PRC ( even those with parents born in China) are derisively called “ bananas “ , yellow on the outside but white on the inside .
thumb_up2replyReply
peemeaney
12 hours ago
Didn't that definition of fascism fit trump/America to a tee?
thumb_up2replyReply
lj-68
12 hours ago
Trump is no longer in office but your whataboutism is noted
thumb_up4replyReply
kimrit
12 hours ago
Well, he ran the government as an authoritarian, and yes he IS scary.
thumb_up1replyReply
M Puckett
12 hours ago
The thing that struck me in 1983 on one of the first tours of China was boarding schools for 3 to 10 year olds, 50 weeks a year.
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
12 hours ago
Just tossing it out there: can China's totalarian government be better for the vast majority of its citizens than anything else?
I get the sense in China, that as long as you don't organize against the govt, you can do what you want.
BrianC3
12 hours ago
Well, you also cannot speak against the government in China.
The Chinese government has accomplished much for its population, this is undeniable. However, the tools of oppression that have been put in place are easy to use for nefarious purposes, and we are starting to see this happen.
Totalitarian governments always start off by giving people what they want in exchange for freedom. But once freedom is lost, government is no longer constrained. Evil people will take the reins of power, and you get Stalin, or Mao, or possibly worse.
thumb_up7replyReply
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
11 hours ago
Fair enough. Good post. When I was in high school we had this big debate about searching lockers...i didnt care because I didnt have any contraband...
I wonder if Chinese people care about political freedom...they have rules, and the Chinese know to follow them....i am not sure if they are arbitrarily applied.
My buddy moved to China and he is now rich....he is free to make money and spend it and travel how he wants...he is not politically active. He prefers China than California.
Normal Andrew
11 hours ago
The rules are arbirtrarily applied. You didn't worry about not having contraband in your locker in high school because you knew what was considered contraband. What if you went to a high school where anything in your locker could be classified as contraband, arbitrarily, if you happend to say the wrong thing or piss off the wrong class mate? You end up locked away in jail forever because your notebook that used to be safe just got classified as contraband for having ideas that are now out of line with the official narrative? (Seriously, just google Sattar Sawut on that last one.) That's life in China. It's an insanely corrupt system, built to protect the interests of Communist party elites.
thumb_up2replyReply
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
dc
12 hours ago
Possible, but I'd say unlikely. These types of governments have bad economic track records. Culturally speaking, the Chinese Party is getting more and more into the weeds of peoples' lives. There's a reason why micromanaging has a negative connotation.
thumb_up2replyReply
lj-68
11 hours ago
No. Have you paid attention to what goes on in China?
China makes all kinds of statements/decrees about law and fairness but the truth is anyone is at the whim of both the general public mob and party and can have their life ruined overnight with no recourse.
That general public mob, by the way, is usually riled up by paid government/agency actors.
thumb_up2replyReply
A result less fundamental and astounding
11 hours ago
The government crops up in alot of places.
Normal Andrew
12 hours ago
It's been widely reported that the Chinese government employs large teams of people to spam comment sections in Western media outlets with their propaganda. You can already see some of their work here. Lots of whataboutism I'm the comments section for this article, it's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention where that's coming from.
thumb_up5replyReply
Mary D.
12 hours ago
Exactly correct. I’ve long urged the Post to regulate what is clearly propaganda, but they have zero interest.
lj-68
11 hours ago
They do it on their own social media too. What they’re not used to is in the west they don’t have moderators on the back end helping them by promoting their comments and making them look popular.
TishTish
12 hours ago
Boycott anything that benefits the lyin', cheatn', commies in Red China.
thumb_up1replyReply
My name is Jim
12 hours ago
Good article. There is a song the Party likes to sing whose translation is "Yellow skin, black eyes, we are one people" referring to the Han. Ask any person from the mainland and they know this song.
Jason4X
12 hours ago
And hey, tankies, I know it may be hard to understand this given how hopelessly locked you are in the CCP’s malignant intellectual feedback loop, but dig this:
NO ONE but Han Chinese wants to live in your fascist hellscape.
thumb_up2replyReply
CityCommuter
12 hours ago
Crud, I just bought something from China and I was looking down on the athletes going to the Olympics there as sellouts. The economy there has gotten rich but somehow more repressive.
It's a terrible situation that China has gone the wrong direction. Another complication is the Chinese students that come here and other scientific collaborations are now compromised.
thumb_up1replyReply
Abnormally Distributed
12 hours ago
Orwellian
A very stable genius from Beijing
Decided to give free speech a fling
He stated opinions
But the CCP minions
Jailed him for insulting Xi Jinping
"National socialism with Chinese characteristics."
thumb_up2replyReply
LongMemory1
12 hours ago
Do not buy Chinese goods. Amazon for example lists origin on most. If it is not listed and turns out to be Chinese, return it.
thumb_up2replyReply
littleway
12 hours ago
It's very difficult to do, but I have been checking more often and trying to buy Australian or American. Lots of things are made in India as well.
thumb_up1replyReply
CityCommuter
12 hours ago
I think it's additionally (not just the political situation) more of a security thing not to buy the electronics, once you have the app for the cameras and stuff it is a security risk.
thumb_up2replyReply
littleway
12 hours ago
They told the athletes at the Olympics to bring dummy phones and leave their real ones at home.
lj-68
11 hours ago
I sure hope they brought sacrificial laptops too
OrdinaryJane
12 hours ago
How funny the main stream media is obsessed with picturing China (or Russia for that matter) in one sided stories. They use their biased views to brainwash the general public. What’s the agenda? Alert the US public so that they can help stage a revolution to turn China into a democracy like the US? Let’s fix our own problems first, shall we. US is losing the global race as we speak.
thumb_up2replyReply
rthomasjr1
12 hours ago
Yeah, putting our heads in the sand in the 1930s to what was happening in Europe because we had so many issues at home really worked out well in the end, huh? Don't worry, we can ignore the rest of the world and just do our thing.
thumb_up3replyReply
Gil Sara
11 hours ago
Are they holding your family in house arrest "Jane"? Go to the FBI for help.
lj-68
11 hours ago
Sometimes an article is just an article but you can easily spot insecure Chinese bad actors by how they see every article as an attack on China.
Y’all are so fragile and scared.
thumb_up1replyReply
Normal Andrew
11 hours ago
Some if it is probably driven by emotional/nationalistic responses but seriously, a lot of these pro-China comments are coming from people doing this as a job, paid for by the CCP.
OrdinaryJane
7 hours ago
(Edited)
For the record, I am not a "paying actor", but an ordinary U.S. citizen who has a distinctive viewpoint. It is disheartening to see my comment that is not popular receive such responses. The slander helps no one, and only makes us more divisive. The world would be better if we could have a civil face to face debate.
Hyphenated_MC
12 hours ago
Would be interested to know how Melissa Chan would narrate what the Chinese people within the PRC actually want. To give credence to the points made in this article, she would need to cover how the people inside the country view their own government. She didn't. We know that for example, a lot of Asians value personal safety highly (just look up the crime rate in Tokyo/HK/Singapore, or even Shanghai, Beijing). With personal safety one can do anything one wants at any time one wants (that's freedom, BTW). The trade is one has to give up some other freedom to have this. What if the Chinese inside the PRC don't mind the surveillance cameras because they also protect them? What if the people in China actually trust their government to look after them? I recently visited my team in Shanghai and Beijing. Honestly, I don't think she fully grasp how the Chinese view their government.
thumb_up2replyReply
CityCommuter
12 hours ago
Hate the cameras in the restrooms, though. That's going to absurd lengths to prevent theft. Supposedly the Chinese are happy to have toilet paper left over as a devil's bargain.
lj-68
11 hours ago
Gee, I don’t know. I’ve got friends who live there. They know better than to openly speak out against the government but they hate what is happening.
Trolls are so obvious.
thumb_up1replyReply
Normal Andrew
11 hours ago
Unfortunately, the Chinese people themselves aren't able to tell us what they want. The CCP won't let them. Maybe they want to be controlled by an unelected group of rich kids of dead revolutionaries like they are now. Maybe they'd rather live in an open and free society. Right now, they can't make the choice or even have the conversation. In Hong Kong, they used to be able to have that conversation and chose to live in a free society, until the CCP decided that they didn't get to live in a free society any more. And don't even start comparing Tokyo or Singapore to anything happening in China, it's beyond offensive.
Hyphenated_MC
9 hours ago
You seems to have chip on your shoulder anyone who doesn't bash China constantly is a troll. My reference to TK/SGP having low crime rate is offensive? You do know Singapore is a fake democracy right? Everyone is tracked, and oppositions sued to oblivion. As to HK, I lived in HK for over 10 year and saw CCP stepping in big time after the riots and I can tell you the rioters were no saints either. Have you actually been in any of these places? You think you know what's going on? Right, you have a friend living in China.....
sitar
12 hours ago
Yes, keep buying Chinese goods.
vvandreev
12 hours ago
Very good analysis. China has become a fascist state.
thumb_up3replyReply
See see
12 hours ago
Just think of all the CEOs who sent their manufacturing to China so they could poo in gold toilets.
thumb_up1replyReply
Justice4AmericaNow
12 hours ago
What the hell is wrong with human nature that this happens. Why do people buy into fascism when they could have freedom?
thumb_up1replyReply
Spaccanapoli
12 hours ago
This is all alarming, and I agree with the author that "fascism" is now the appropriate word for China. I believe that word, with "aspiring" in front of it, now describes our own country's right wing.
thumb_up3replyReply
Justice4AmericaNow
12 hours ago
Why are we doing business with it?
thumb_up1replyReply
lj-68
11 hours ago
Cheap labor and lax labor laws and now that the supply chain is there, businesses are committed.
They were warned but didn’t listen.
captainspires
13 hours ago
China's new dictum to its citizens: Keep your eyes shut, your mouth closed and do what you're told.
thumb_up1replyReply
FGs Roommate
13 hours ago
(Edited)
Well said!
Fredsch
13 hours ago
(Edited)
But you work for Al Jazeera, the propaganda arm of an authoritarian, non-democratic, government
thumb_up2replyReply
Argonautics
13 hours ago
That would be Fox News.
thumb_up2replyReply
lj-68
11 hours ago
(Edited)
lmao. No. They tend to report on the US in a less than favorable light sometimes.
Which is fine. We’re adults. We’re not gonna cry about it
Kathylock
13 hours ago
This is the type of country Trump wants to have in the USA. Too bad the GOP isn't going to stop our own Fascist mouth ...Trump,, Jordan, Cruz, Johnson, and the rest of the insurrectionists that continue today.
thumb_up2replyReply
aifuyou
8 hours ago
If you stop them, then you become fascist. Please try to get this point through your head.
gop4vldmrt
13 hours ago
The last GOP president on Xi Jinping eliminating terms on his presidency effectively making him dictator for life.
“He’s now president for life, president for life. And he’s great,” ... “And look, he was able to do that. I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll have to give that a shot someday,” to cheers and applause from supporters.
thumb_up4replyReply
littleway
12 hours ago
Why that didn't alarm more republicans is a mystery to me.
thumb_up1replyReply
jaysimkin
13 hours ago
China's problem: the Communist Party of China's (CPC) embraces a hate-based political philosophy, Marxism-Leninism (M-L). M-L does not fit a country that is modern, prosperous, and with global influence.
President Xi Jinping, a genocidal murderer, has taken China back to the fear-based governance of founder Mao Zedong (1949-76). Mao's opponents fared poorly.
Fear explains why Beijing was blind-sided by COVID-19. Some in Wuhan knew a new disease had emerged and tried to sound an alarm. They were silenced by fearful seniors and the police. COVID-19 spread in China and thence globally.
Fear drives repression of Hong Kong residents, who like Rule of Law. The CPC rejects any limits on its authority and views Hong Kong as a cancer, that must be killed to prevent its spread.
Even more does the CPC want to eliminate Taiwan, where Chinese vote in free and fair elections. The CPC claims regaining Taiwan is about "national unity". But China has prospered without controlling Taiwan. If - H-eaven forbid - an earthquake sank Taiwan - China would be no less prosperous.
Chinese live better than did any of their ancestors, in the 5,000 years there have been polities in what's now China. The CPC likely would get 60-65% of the vote in a free and fair election. The CPC is too scared to risk an election.
After Mao, the CPC ditched M-L's plainly-failed economics, which kept China poor. The CPC clings to M-L's hate-based political monopoly and has become a millstone around Chinese necks.
Argonautics
13 hours ago
"China's problem: the Communist Party of China's (CPC) embraces a hate-based political philosophy.."
Sounds just like the Republicans...
thumb_up3replyReply
jaysimkin
12 hours ago
(Edited)
This is for Argonautics. You're in error. Karl Marx formulated his basic thesis - that Capitalists and Workers were locked hard into enmity - just when that idea began to be undermined. In effect, he took a snapshot of Germany in the mid-1800s and assumed what he saw would always be so. His successors have remained wedded to that out-dated framework.
Germany introduced pensions in 1889, under its famous (and conservative) Chancellor Otto von Bismarck. He was not moved by humanitarian motives. Rather he saw pensions as a way to promote harmony and so national strength. Britain followed Germany's lead - as to pensions - in 1908.
Marx published his core work - Das Kapital - in 1867 (Volume I). The second and third volumes were published after Marx' death in 1883.
It is thus clear that others saw what Marx had seen - maltreatment of workers by some owners was counterproductive.
Marxists cling to this idea of undying enmity because they lack the brain-power to adjust to change. Their hate-based philosophy hamstrings them.
To attribute to Republicans - as you do - a hate-based philosophy is simply error.
thumb_up1replyReply
Argonautics
10 hours ago
(Edited)
Thanks for your rebuttal Jay. Sorry, I don't buy into the ideology thing. It's solely about control of power and wealth. And yes, the vast majority of Republicans are racist white people.
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
Justice4AmericaNow
12 hours ago
Taiwanese not Chinese. You outed yourself.
jaysimkin
12 hours ago
This is for Justice...Now. Could you please explain your comment?
Mad King _____ the Unelected
13 hours ago
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I love Gina! They made my IPhone! They make all my stuff! Mitt Romney even sent my job there!
thumb_up1replyReply
TimeDilator
13 hours ago
Authoritarianism becomes Totalitarianism
thumb_up1replyReply
timur1
13 hours ago
To a certain extent, democracy if you can afford and dictatorship if you must for a society. The Western countries would rather have Covid than social discipline like the Asian societies, particular China. A little bid of corruption, lawlessness or violence is healthy for creativity, until it becomes too disruptive and destructive for that society. That balance is made by the citizens of the country as a whole, either by election or violent regime change. Taiwan is often made to compare with Mainland China. It never had a civil war there. (Neither US nor Taiwan has a decent bullet train.) Few people in China liked to return to the Good Old Days, when a few educated rich, and it could not even manufacture a nail. The average life span was around 40. Now the basic needs are met. Who knows China would not become a little colorful, corrupt and free, 30 years from now, with legalized money corruption, gays, drugs, sex and gun violence? The cycles repeat.
thumb_up1replyReply
lj-68
11 hours ago
The basic needs are met? How about that energy crisis?
And you lock people up for disagreeing with the party. You allow mob justices and engage in things like social credit and social death. You have wealth inequality while pretending you’re promoting common prosperity.
So save it. You have all the downsides of totalitarianism and none of the benefits.
And I wouldn’t be bringing up COVID control measures to people in the west. Patient 0 was in Wuhan.
Daniel Calto
5 hours ago
High-speed trains in Taiwan are older models but still travel around 180 mph, more than enough to cover a fairly small island that's about 240m north to south. Easy to go from Taipei to Kaosiung and back in one day.
Sunita3883
13 hours ago
China is nation building.The Uyghurs are seen as the only people that may cause political unrest hence the corralling and control.USA did the same to Native people and then resorted to slavery!!Canada did the same to its Native population with indoctrination and killing some.Australia did the same.Germany killed six million! So lets take a deep breath and stop gnashing our teeth against the “genocide” which it is not.
thumb_up2replyReply
Youagreewithme
13 hours ago
China paid Troll
thumb_up3replyReply
summer sky
13 hours ago
Wow. Denial and whataboutism in response to genii death.
Florida votes
13 hours ago
The author makes some strong analogies between current Chinese rule and 20th-Century fascism. But one major difference is that the Chinese have moved slowly and deliberately whereas Hitler and Mussolini moved impulsively. It took about 25 years for China to swallow Hong Kong whereas the European fascists were all dead within about 15 years of taking power. Hitler and Mussolini rashly overestimated their abilities to fight on multiple fronts, and their atrocities on civilians were much more radical than China's slow style of genocide, including Tibet. Over the long run, that might make China much more dangerous to the world even though it is difficult to imagine surpassing the agony of the Second World War.
thumb_up4replyReply
aifuyou
8 hours ago
Actually, new tech has enabled Chinese fascists to move much faster, more intrusively and far-reaching than their Italian and German forefathers ever dreamed of. It has obviously infiltrated this comment section, but more importantly, they swarm like locusts blacking out the sun in social media outlets such as YouTube, Twitter, and TicTuc.
Unbeknownst to most, we have been living in a Chinese fascist world.
Easytravel Ridethewind
14 hours ago
Much to do about nothing.....China is trying to bring itself into the 22 century...and this kind of rhetoric does not do a lot of good for anybody...why not tell how far they have come in the last fifty years instead...the changes have been tremendous...progress has been made on many fronts...just getting the poplation to speak mandarin as national unifying laguage has been a huge accomplishment...the work is on going...people from the Middle East who judge this people for any reason....have no foundation to stand on...China trade helps us... those from the Middle East should work on their own situation...instead of judging others....they know so little about...
THTIVlife
13 hours ago
Who's from the Middle East?
Argonautics
13 hours ago
Jesus?
thumb_up1replyReply
pjnett1
13 hours ago
Hitler made progress on many fronts too. Just think what progress could have been made had his “ongoing work” been allowed to continue!
thumb_up1replyReply
bluesandrhythm
13 hours ago
A bit too much "official-speak" in this comment for me to take it seriously.
thumb_up4replyReply
Aelwyn
13 hours ago
China trade helps us
Who is the "us" you are talking about?
thumb_up3replyReply
Normal Andrew
12 hours ago
Hello Chinese troll.
thumb_up1replyReply
stemerr
14 hours ago
Ms. Chan is essentially right. It's important to keep in mind that much of what the current regime is doing is out of fear of its own people. The constant attempts at ever more control reflect the degree to which their power is inefficient, and their high level of unpopularity, which they mask with relentless (partly coerced, partly paid) online "patriotic" trolling. A really popular government wouldn't need regularly to ban popular search terms. A really popular leader would just smile benignly if a few opponents called him Winnie-the-Pooh instead of frantically banning the name. A constant level of international tension is just as useful a distraction for Xi as it is for Putin.
thumb_up3replyReply
Steverino2001
14 hours ago
So why are we sending our Olympic athletes to that fascist state?
thumb_up4replyReply
MakingSenseOfItAll
14 hours ago
Because there is money to be made.
thumb_up4replyReply
23martha
13 hours ago
Feels like the Berlin Olympics
Argonautics
13 hours ago
(Edited)
Who's we? We're a "free" country, our government doesn't send athletes anywhere. The athletes decide where to go for themselves.
thumb_up1replyReply
Kaonashi
14 hours ago
The policy of the countries who do not wish to live in a world dominated by a totalitarian police state ought to be aimed at blunting the growth of its power and limiting its influence. Policy should be focused on determining what China is attempting to do and actively working to thwart the achievement of those goals.
That means limiting trade and investment, developing alternative sources of whatever China is selling to the world that currently can't be had elsewhere, countering China's investment diplomacy in developing countries, etc.
Western governments just sort of assumed (reading too much Hayek or something) that developing capitalist elements in the Chinese economy would naturally lead to the development of democracy in China. Now, more than 30 years after Tiananmen and after the rise of Xi, we know that's a pipe dream. Stronger measures are required. China is strong, but for the moment, we are still stronger. This is the fateful moment and we need to act.
Doug Neidermeyer
14 hours ago
Out of curiosity, has China acted to hurt US interests? Or would we be doing this to help the Chinese people? If the latter, what makes you sure the average resident of China would be thankful?
thumb_up2replyReply
Shepherd0330
14 hours ago
(Edited)
Also will we be nuking them or sending in foot soldiers? Will the people making money be happy and how will it effect the world or us?
Mountain Dan
14 hours ago
Yes, yes and yes. Look at what the FBI Director said yesterday regarding all the cyber theft of data and intellectual property.
thumb_up2replyReply
Doug Neidermeyer
14 hours ago
(Edited)
I know of the allegations, and I certainly don't believe we should open ourselves up to it. If it is happening, we should counter it. What is the actual economic damage? How much lower is our GDP because of it? We have a huge trade relationship with them. They are major investors in the US.
I'm doubtful that the average resident of China will thank us. Don't underestimate nationalism.
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
Kaonashi
14 hours ago
China is clearly aiming for global primacy, and that is a zero sum game with the US. This isn't about helping the Chinese people, it's about helping everyone else in the world who doesn't want to live in the shadow of a country ruled by one man for life.
The conflict isn't with the Chinese people, but with its totalitarian government.
If China were magically to, say, successfully adopt the Taiwanese model of government overnight as well as its social norms or those of the late mostly democratic city of Hong Kong, I think it would be a wonderful place. But currently China is moving in the opposite and dangerous direction.
thumb_up4replyReply
Doug Neidermeyer
14 hours ago
You are asserting it is a zero sum game.
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
Argonautics
13 hours ago
Because I've been there and talked to them.
Victoria W.
13 hours ago
Out of curiosity, has China acted to hurt US interests?
Rather afraid it has:
“When we tally up what we see in our investigations—over 2,000 of which are focused on the Chinese government trying to steal our information or technology—there is just no country that presents a broader threat to our ideas, our innovation, and our economic security than China”.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/director-wray-addresses-threats-posed-to-the-us-by-china-020122
Chris Douglas
13 hours ago
Was Hayek a proponent of democracy? I’m not sure he was.
Kaonashi
13 hours ago
It's been a long time since I suffered through reading that, but he was more focused on freedom and individuality and the loss of those things through the rise of government control of the economy. Not that he wanted government in the hands of the plebes, of course.
Doug Neidermeyer
14 hours ago
(Edited)
The two largest economies have a lot of joint interest, for instance in promoting stability in the world economic system and preventing instability in problem regions of the world from spilling over.
We have an obligation to act on atrocities. But it simply is not the business of the US to ensure that in everyday life in China, Chinese citizens enjoy all the liberties we enjoy. Nor is it our business if China chooses its leaders in a way we disapprove. Remember that our attempts to install democracy have failed in Iraq, and it has failed in Afghanistan.
From China's perspective, it is the US that started the recent trade war. And they have not encroached on US interests. If we treat China as an enemy, we risk a self fulfilling prophesy.
We can't make enemies with every country we disapprove of. That has a tendency of driving them together. Take on Russia and China at the same time, what's going to happen? Look at the front page of NYT right now.
Mountain Dan
14 hours ago
(Edited)
Don't conflate Russia and China. Russia has an economy the size of Rhode Island.....or some such. Putin is reportedly the world's richest man given how he has economically raped his own country. Xi, as far as I know, is focused on power and global economic domination, not competing with Putin for the world's richest title.
Doug Neidermeyer
13 hours ago
(Edited)
I'm not conflating them. We currently have a very tricky situation with Ukraine. One that risks world stability. Putin is going to China for support because of the fissure between China and the US. Russia had a long period of frosty relations with China.
A result less fundamental and astounding
14 hours ago
China has encroached on US economic interests by capitalizing on our cyber vulnerabilities.
thumb_up1replyReply
Doug Neidermeyer
13 hours ago
What does that mean. Give me a concrete outcome of it. What is the value of that outcome?
Mary D.
12 hours ago
Being an apologist for genocide isn’t a good look, Dougie.
Goodmorning
14 hours ago
We are all going to have to get better about identifying and forcefully opposing fascism everywhere it appears, because it's out in the open and on the rise.
thumb_up2replyReply
Valparaiso Paris
14 hours ago
Chinatactorian ?
Would that be strong enough ?
thumb_up2replyReply
chris F 2016
14 hours ago
Well, why don't you just call China "devil reincarnate" already. Why bother with your fake "journalism (double) standard"?
China isn't shining example of liberty, but you, living in Germany, really think it's Hitler came back to live?
Mary D.
12 hours ago
Your English needs a little work, “Chris.”
Reads Articles
14 hours ago
(Edited)
The meaning of FASCISM is a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition... Webster
thumb_up1replyReply
Argonautics
13 hours ago
(Edited)
Q: What's the difference between a Fascist dictator and a Communist dictator?
A: Nothing
patriot2008
14 hours ago
Time to pull manufacturing by US companies out of China. There's nothing cheap or inexpensive about supporting this government.
thumb_up2replyReply
occormas
14 hours ago
We need ever increasing tariffs on Chinese goods. Probably won’t happen as both the left & right wings of the political parties would block them.
When Trump tried to impose tariffs on Chinese imports, the right blocked him with the cry, “it’s the American consumer who pays the tariffs”. What they left out is that raising prices to change behavior is the whole idea.
Then, there is the right wing Republicans. Does anyone really believe they will support tariffs that hurt their business interests in China?
thumb_up1replyReply
Argonautics
13 hours ago
Tell that to the wealthy donors and corporations that buy our politicians votes in Congress. Good luck.
marcellusavides
14 hours ago
Capitalism inadvertently created China’s wealth and now China is turning into a machine from top to bottom. How ironic that a self-describe communist country is now harnessing capitalism and fascism together for its communist ends…
thumb_up4replyReply
Winged Avenger
12 hours ago
We're outsourcing oppression. We have foreign governments terrorizing their workforces so we don't have to!
thumb_up1replyReply
daver20121
15 hours ago
It is neither an "authoritarian" nor "totalitarian" regime. It is the completely mad oppressive state driven by severe malignant narcissist bent on controlling everything around him. Or in other words, the state Trump and his GQP will create if he is able to get back into office.
thumb_up5replyReply
szl8
15 hours ago
A better article on authoritarian government is "Researchers are asking why some countries were better prepared for covid. One surprising answer: Trust." More intelligent. More honest.
thumb_up1replyReply
George Cornell
15 hours ago
Another day, another string of malicious scurrilous China-sliming articles. Love the phoney use of Asian writers, always ex-HK and Taiwanese, to make the pretence of objectivity. And is there some kind of WaPo quota?
The Chinese have lifted 850,000,000 people out of poverty in a few short years.
You? ~Lead the Western world in poverty especially child poverty. Get real.
You lead the world in covid deaths and even per capita you’re near the top.
You lead the world in pollution, twice as much per capita as the Chinese.
Blah, blah.
You’re looking sillier and sillier.
thumb_up6replyReply
zig2020
15 hours ago
Do you have a camera in your bathroom?
thumb_up8replyReply
George Cornell
13 hours ago
No I watch yours . It competes for space with your NSA surveillance.
Argonautics
13 hours ago
(Edited)
Why are your Ghost Cities empty? Because the CCP leaders don't care who can afford to buy them. They only care that they stole half the money given to build them in the first place.
George Cornell
13 hours ago
Why do you care? Haven’t you got enough on your own pathetic doorstep?
Argonautics
11 hours ago
Just pointing out that you full of poop. That's all.
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
12 hours ago
America and China wont see eye to eye..we luv our freedum....
George Cornell
12 hours ago
Freedum to use bad judgement can’t work in the long run.
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
11 hours ago
No, America is sunsetting..sadly....too much division and inquality.
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
An authoritarian government that doesn’t respect people’s rights but leaves you alone if you don’t cause trouble.
A totalitarian government interferes in every aspect of every citizens life.
thumb_up6replyReply
daver20121
15 hours ago
Baloney. What a tool you are. Or maybe just a silly troll.
Argonautics
13 hours ago
bologna
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
12 hours ago
Thanks for that distinction!
I think China is more the latter...or becoming so.
Killer Rabbit
15 hours ago
There is a big difference between authoritarian and totalitarian regimes. Authoritarian regimes are often military juntas or strongman-type regimes like in Turkey. A totalitarian regime is propped up by so-called civilian militias or a single party, which keep an ongoing watch on the everyday activities of people including within their own homes. China, like the ex-USSR, the current North Korean regime, etc., is a totalitarian regime.
thumb_up8replyReply
Black as Knight
16 hours ago
We could call them "very, very bad, not-good" or simply drop the "ch" and replace it with a "J" and call them "Jina" like Trump did.
That'll show 'em.
But don't expect much from the current president. He's out having icecream.
Chocolate-chocolate chip, anyone?
A result less fundamental and astounding
16 hours ago
Raspberry.
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
I think the Olympic boycott will occur under this president.
thumb_up1replyReply
hackney bunch
15 hours ago
Trump would have been so much stronger. But first he’d have to collect his Chinese loans and all of those made in China hats, innit...
thumb_up1replyReply
daver20121
15 hours ago
Ah a China troll bad-mouthing Biden. Good. That means his latest sanctions against China must be hurting. Cool.
thumb_up3replyReply
about_face
16 hours ago
Why is/was Trump acceptable and strongly supported by the GoP with a closet full of Fascist supporters ?
President Xi, a strong leader that made the mark of bringing 500 m Chinese out of poverty, a fascist? Even the Uyghurs that western media denounced as being in a state of 'concentration camp' like control by the CCP enjoys better standards of living than some homeless in NY, Chicago, London.
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
This is nonsense on a parallel with excusing Hitler because he created full employment.
thumb_up6replyReply
about_face
2 hours ago
Xi, did not invade ukraine nor afghanistan. hitler did. us did.
Make_Your_Bed_Everyday
16 hours ago
I don't pretend to understand China.
I do recognize that their culture is very, very different than the culture in the west in spite of the fact that they now consume like we do.
And culture is the strongest force on the planet.
thumb_up4replyReply
A result less fundamental and astounding
16 hours ago
Culture can't change the fact we are all born as individuals.
Make_Your_Bed_Everyday
16 hours ago
That was rather inane
thumb_up4replyReply
A result less fundamental and astounding
16 hours ago
Thrash away.
about_face
16 hours ago
Let me just pick on one point from Melissa Chan's article - Jack Ma. She doesn't seems to have delved deeper into why Jack Ma was given the royal treatment he so deserves.
The overhyped humble beginnings of Alibaba (like that of Apple, FB, stories, that Americans and the adoring fans of Silicon Valley so loved), is folklore by itself.
When Jack drew the comparison of the Chinese banking system as being archaic as a Chinese pawn shop, he shot off something more than he could chewed on. Jack, forgot he made money off the ordinary Chinese people and from the initial support given by patrons from the CCP. He followed the American playbook.
thumb_up1replyReply
A result less fundamental and astounding
16 hours ago
There are many American playbooks.
thumb_up1replyReply
althing7
16 hours ago
I agree with this article's analysis. To use more jargon-heavy poli-sci terms, it's pointing out that China has transitioned from an authoritarian regime to a totalitarian regime.
thumb_up5replyReply
A result less fundamental and astounding
16 hours ago
Maybe "transitioned back..." is more precise.
thumb_up4replyReply
ObjectiveReader1
17 hours ago
A great column.
The mainstream media, including wapo, has defended china for too long.
thumb_up8replyReply
The Templar
17 hours ago
An excellent article. Thank you. Communism and fascism are more closely related than they are apart. Nazis we’re National Socialists. The question is does China really want to expand past beyond what it thinks it’s entitled to? Is world domination it’s ultimate real goal?
thumb_up2replyReply
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
This is absolute nonsense. They are historically unrelated and by what economic measures can the current regime be called “communist”.
There’s a reason why the Holocaust is the worst crime in history. It’s cause was nationalism and racism, not economic policy.
thumb_up4replyReply
amethystmarbles
14 hours ago
Well, they do own a lot of our national debt.
The 'belt and road' initiative in Africa probably isn't as altruistic as we're being led to believe. Case in point: China promised Montenegro a really nice coastal road, and even offered to finance it. Then China decided they didn't need to finish the road before they called in the loans. The rest of the world had to intervene financially to keep Montenegro from becoming part of China.
Don't think they won't try it again.
Time to use the 25th
17 hours ago
China is what the Democrats are striving to replicate here.
thumb_up1replyReply
Chuckanut Sandstone
17 hours ago
Whatever, dude.
thumb_up9replyReply
Makuakanelua
16 hours ago
Who needs camps in America when the Republican base is effectively killing themselves off with covid denial.
thumb_up8replyReply
The Radical Centrist
16 hours ago
Perhaps. But the GOP sounds more like fascists everyday. So, what’s going on here? If you are taking sides, then you are not seeing the reality of the elites on both sides are fighting for control of our corrupt government.
thumb_up6replyReply
Patrick Feldman
18 hours ago
China is a slave state with a total military-industrial complex.
thumb_up5replyReply
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
Not exactly. Most Chinese do well out of the regime and the regime works hard to keep it that way. Slavery is reserved for minorities and dissidents. Self-evidently it’s not a total military-industrial complex as we’re both typing on Chinese made devices.
Given the industrial use of prison labour in America and the scale of the military budget here, stone throwing on either ground would be hypocritical.
thumb_up1replyReply
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
12 hours ago
Good points....
Bod Abra
18 hours ago
China is a colonial Empire with Emperor Xi and the ruling class of CCP running a totalitarian police state committing religious and cultural and linguistic genocide against nonHan peoples. Plus Cantonese will be governed by officials promoted for their brutality in Tibet and East Turkistan.
Officially self described as the dictatorship of the proletariat where the few CCP princelings lord it over the poor peoples.
thumb_up5replyReply
kpitanywayUwant
18 hours ago
(Edited)
The piece tacitly speaks to what should be the proper role of government in your life. It's the American tradition based on the Enlightenment precept of unenumerated natural rights, any abridgement of which must be rigorously justified vs. an approved list of rights that government says that you can have. The former, a radical experiment still in progress; the latter, a monotonous, default absolutism of despots. I wonder if those who indulge in the theory of rigid dominant/oppressed binaries, where all traditions of the dominant must be aggressively deconstructed, really think about where their choices can take them.
thumb_up1replyReply
Make_Your_Bed_Everyday
16 hours ago
Interesting
Is your point that we should also be wary of freedom?
A result less fundamental and astounding
16 hours ago
I didn't read it that way.
Make_Your_Bed_Everyday
16 hours ago
I would like to see he or she expound a bit.
thumb_up1replyReply
kpitanywayUwant
11 hours ago
(Edited)
The point is to use your freedom wisely; and be careful of what you ask for.
BarnabasCo
18 hours ago
Newsflash: when totalitarian authorities tell you they need to put surveillance cameras in washrooms to combat the national tidal wave of toilet paper theft, you don’t have to believe them.
thumb_up4replyReply
redbird7
15 hours ago
You may not believe them, but you don't really have any say in the matter, do you?
thumb_up2replyReply
BarnabasCo
12 hours ago
(Edited)
What kind of idiotic comment is this? None of us who post here do, really. But all of us have our say anyway. It’s why it’s called a chat board.
Vagabond Rambler
18 hours ago
(Edited)
To keep the wool pulled over the Chinese people's eyes, and stay in power as the unelected autocracy, the CCP has become an increasingly wicked entity in both word and deed. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they had some fake Covid tests on hand, especially for the purpose of keeping rival athletes out of certain competitions to raise the gold medal chances for Chinese athletes (and the resulting CCP motherland propaganda that goes along with that).
thumb_up5replyReply
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
More than propaganda, they use prosperity. When that goes, what will happen?
thumb_up1replyReply
FDJBMLK
18 hours ago
No one I know will be watching one minute of these Olympics. Several people I know, probably our family included, WILL get a list of sponsors and advertisers, and will boycott their products and services to the extent humanly possible. We already pay extra to buy products NOT made in China. I appreciate the author's analysis of the proper label--it means something. I prefer totalitarian to fascist.
Not all fascist regimes are totalitarian, but all totalitarian regimes are fascist and much worse. China is in that category. I'm not being holier than thou, either. If the thought police predominantly on the right in particular, but some the left as well, had their way, we could go down the same path, governed in our speech and even our thoughts. No thanks.
thumb_up8replyReply
Some sense
18 hours ago
Fascism is European, not Chinese. Xi has imported it to suit his goals.
thumb_up2replyReply
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
China has millennia of tyranny behind it. It doesn’t need to import.
thumb_up1replyReply
S_P_MAA
18 hours ago
Nations that believe in freedom, democracy, secularism, fundamental rights … must boycott the fascist state of China that stands for everything diametrically opposed to our cherished values.
They are despotic rogues. Why consort with them so shamelessly?
thumb_up8replyReply
Miss Foreign Affairs
18 hours ago
WHY are countries like the US participating in the Olympics? The only reason i can see is narcissism.
thumb_up3replyReply
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
12 hours ago
Oh come on, get off your horse..why do we buy cheap chinese stuff...or rather chinese stuff, as their manufacturing base has matured.
neelk1
19 hours ago
It’s slippery territory: a surveillance state with an aspiring strongman espousing traditional family values and engaging in military buildup and adventurism—a good description of America during the W Bush administration.
thumb_up1replyReply
Chuckanut Sandstone
17 hours ago
Your facile comparison minimizes the extent of human rights abuses currently underway in China.
thumb_up5replyReply
trblmkr1
19 hours ago
But then we would be importing all of our…stuff from a fascist country.
Whoops!
thumb_up2replyReply
The Old Vermonter
19 hours ago
I suppose Ms. Chan expects us to somehow stop this.
What does she have in mind?
Fox-n-Owl
19 hours ago
She told us where to start—journalists using more accurate vocabulary.
thumb_up4replyReply
Chuckanut Sandstone
17 hours ago
Stop buying stuff made in China. I've done so for the past 2 years, and it's not that hard.
thumb_up2replyReply
Breakbone
19 hours ago
Nationalkommunistisch, or Natcom
A form of fascism.
thumb_up1replyReply
Oz Optimist
19 hours ago
Very thoughtful article.
thumb_up5replyReply
kuvasz
19 hours ago
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell
thumb_up10replyReply
Shardanacles
19 hours ago
I just call them Genociders.
What they are doing to the Muslims in western China is Genocide, and they should be boycotted by the rest of the world for it until they stop.
Not that I expect that to happen.
All of the countries they now own can not do that, and the rest are addicted to their goods and precious metals.
thumb_up6replyReply
Apthard
19 hours ago
What is america doing across the breadth of North Africa? Mauritania Chad niger mali Libya Tunisia Somalia Kenya Mozambique , then north to Yemen Syria and Iraq…. The support of the theft of land in Israel and the imprisonment of 2 million in Gaza …. You don’t even declare a war …. You bomb at will, trial by drone. Look at yourselves usa. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
thumb_up2replyReply
Shardanacles
19 hours ago
(Edited)
I live in Canada.
But nothing the US is involved in is as horrendous as what the Chinese are doing to Muslims in Western China.
thumb_up10replyReply
Apthard
18 hours ago
Yeah your right it’s al, precision an d surgical death from on high….. just like in Afghanistan Right?
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
freeurmindinstead
19 hours ago
The problem with the word fascism is that it is easily confused with Fascism, an actual historic movement. Totalitarian works for me.Opinion: China isn’t just ‘authoritarian’ any more. It’s scarier.
A picture of Chinese President Xi Jinping is seen on a large screen during an even at Beijing's National Stadium on June 28, 2021. (Noel Celis/AFP via Getty Images)
By Melissa Chan
January 31, 2022 at 11:03 a.m. EST
Melissa Chan is a journalist covering transnational issues often involving China’s influence beyond its borders. She is based in Berlin.
In 2009, when I began to more frequently describe China as “authoritarian” as a broadcast correspondent for Al Jazeera English, some editors pushed back, believing it was too much editorializing. We have since become more comfortable with regularly using the designation, in media coverage and beyond. But as journalists and athletes head to Beijing for the Winter Olympics, it may be time to reassess and consider calling the Chinese state what it is fast becoming: a fascist one.
When the facts change, it’s time to change our minds — and our language. Ahead of the 2008 Summer Games in Beijing, international media knew China was authoritarian and described it as such when necessary, but entire articles concerning China’s political system were written without mentioning it. The government had issued regulations allowing the foreign press corps to travel freely around the country, a departure from years of tight control. And the people we met on these trips, many working as labor campaigners or rights lawyers, pointed the way to a new, transformative Chinese generation.
Authorities then started locking up the activists they once championed. The country decoupled from the world’s popular social media platforms, blocking Facebook, Google, Twitter and others. Police began aggressively surveilling news teams, sometimes waiting in cars at the airport before we even landed. My decision to regularly use “authoritarian” reflected that shift.
Now, we should consider nomenclature once again.
Some will argue the country’s communist foundation makes it fundamentally incompatible with fascism’s right-wing roots. The respected Chinese legal scholar Teng Biao prefers calling the country totalitarian.
But consider the hallmarks of fascism: a surveillance state with a strongman invoking racism, nationalism and traditional family values at home, while building up a military for expansion abroad.
Xi Jinping, a leader who has elevated himself to the level of Mao Zedong, has built a cult of personality around him, complete with portraits in public and private spaces. Propaganda recalls China’s glorious history while bewailing its past treatment by Western imperial powers, allowing Beijing to play both the nationalism and victim cards. As a correspondent formerly based in China and now writing from Berlin, I find it difficult to ignore how much China’s present echoes Germany’s past.
Painted portraits of Chinese President Xi Jinping and late communist leader Mao Zedong at a market in Beijing on Sept. 19, 2017. (AFP via Getty Images)
To right perceived wrongs, Xi has a clear revanchist agenda. Taiwan has become his Alsace-Lorraine, the Himalayan border with India his Polish Corridor, and Hong Kong his Sudetenland. With military or strong-arm tactics, he has made clear that moves to control these areas are not off the table. In addition, Beijing has reportedly moved into Bhutanese territory. China also claims most of the South China Sea, where it has built military outposts marked by its own “nine-dash line” that, on a map, protrudes far beyond Chinese land borders in a Lebensraum-like expansion.
21st-century technology has provided the Chinese Communist Party surveillance capabilities that 20th-century fascists could only dream of. Facial recognition cameras work to track 1.4 billion people, invading even public bathrooms to stop toilet paper theft. The state, with coordination from its technology giants, controls and tracks messages and content d between smartphones.
Surveillance cameras operate in Shanghai on Jan. 8. (Qilai Shen/Bloomberg News)
No entity operates freely from the CCP, including these technology champions. Companies may chase profit margins like other capitalist enterprises, but party officials step in when they see an overriding state interest. Those who fail to fall in line are felled — the most spectacular example being billionaire tech magnate Jack Ma, who disappeared for months after criticizing the country’s financial regulators. Together with Beijing’s anti-union, anti-labor stance, the Chinese economy today recalls Mussolini’s corporatist fascism.
The state has also become fixated on machismo, another fascist obsession. It bans what it considers “effeminate” behavior, which it associates with the LGBTQ community, where activists have also faced increasing government reprisal. It exhorts men and women to procreate, in a sharp reversal of Beijing’s decades-long one-child policy. It has invaded citizens’ most private spheres to do so, even attempting to bolster male virility by clamping down on vasectomies.
Critically, Beijing targets ethnic Han Chinese in this campaign — in its eyes, the “master race.” Against minorities, most troublingly against Muslim Uyghurs, the state has sought to prevent births, including by using extreme measures such as forced sterilization. Its treatment of Uyghurs, not as citizens but rather a problem to be dealt with, has led to the establishment of hundreds of reeducation camps that experts say constitute the largest detention of ethnic and religious minorities since World War II. The legislatures of several democracies have called what’s happening genocide.
Paramilitary police officers patrol in the aftermath of riots as Uyghur men walk by in Urumqi, Xinjiang, in July 2009. (Eugene Hoshiko/AP)
A guard tower and barbed wire fence surround a detention facility in the Kunshan Industrial Park in Artux, Xinjiang, on Dec. 3, 2018. (Ng Han Guan/AP)
Taken together, “authoritarian” — used to also describe declining democratic states such as Hungary and Turkey — hardly feels enough, nor does it feel accurate. That is a disservice to the public. Journalists, politicians and others should consider calling elements of the Chinese state fascistic, if they are not entirely comfortable describing the state writ large as fascist.
We may be facing an absence of existing terminology to properly describe contemporary China. But that behooves us to rethink our vocabulary and not dismiss the f-word out of hand.
This conversation is moderated according to The Post's community rules. Please read the rules before joining the discussion. If you’re experiencing any technical problems, please contact our customer care team.
Tab:
All Comments
(
571
)
Sort byexpand_more
jaysimkin
56 minutes ago
China's problem: the Communist Party of China's (CPC) embraces a hate-based political philosophy, Marxism-Leninism (M-L). M-L does not fit a country that is modern, prosperous, and with global influence.
President Xi Jinping, a genocidal murderer, has taken China back to the fear-based governance of founder Mao Zedong (1949-76). Mao's opponents fared poorly.
Fear explains why Beijing was blind-sided by COVID-19. Some in Wuhan knew a new disease had emerged and tried to sound an alarm. They were silenced by fearful seniors and the police. COVID-19 spread in China and thence globally.
Fear drives repression of Hong Kong residents, who like Rule of Law. The CPC rejects any limits on its authority and views Hong Kong as a cancer, that must be killed to prevent its spread.
Even more does the CPC want to eliminate Taiwan, where Chinese vote in free and fair elections. The CPC claims regaining Taiwan is about "national unity". But China has prospered without controlling Taiwan. If - H-eaven forbid - an earthquake sank Taiwan - China would be no less prosperous.
Chinese live better than did any of their ancestors, in the 5,000 years there have been polities in what's now China. The CPC likely would get 60-65% of the vote in a free and fair election. The CPC is too scared to risk an election.
After Mao, the CPC ditched M-L's plainly-failed economics, which kept China poor. The CPC clings to M-L's hate-based political monopoly and has become a millstone around Chinese necks.
EcstaticAlligator
6 hours ago
Where were you from 2017 to 2021, Melissa?
While the MSM was trying to "normalize" an authoritarian in America. ????
Democracy Dies In Hypocrisy
7 hours ago
This is in today's Washington Post by George F. Well: "Opinion: Donald Trump and Boris Johnson have much in common, with one vital, deflating difference". He concluded, "This total indifference to evidence is today’s “American exceptionalism.” This is particularly applicable to the author of this piece, Melissa Chan, who only references hoax, false similarity, insinuation and exaggeration. Disgraceful.
thumb_up1replyReply
Victoria W.
7 hours ago
Find us similar critiques of China's leaders in mainland Chinese media, and you'll be less liable (slightly) to charges of hypocrisy.
Go on. We're waiting.
Democracy Dies In Hypocrisy
7 hours ago
Not until you read this evidence that proves Huji Turdi was chairman of the Uyghur American Association, which takes huge amount of money from the NED, and make your apology for wrongfully accusing me of lying. This is a moral mandate, in case you don't know. Yes, basic decency matters the most. I will be waiting.
http://uyguristan.20m.com/help.html
Victoria W.
7 hours ago
make your apology for wrongfully accusing me of lying.
I don't tend to apologise for things I never did.
thumb_up1replyReply
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
aifuyou
7 hours ago
We tend to believe that this menacing fascist state is faraway on the other side of the world. It is not.
It has been and are increasing their pace to bribe and corrupt our political and business leaders into selling out to them.
It has been and are even more ferociously sending their trolls to swarm like locusts blacking out the sun in social media outlets such as YouTube, Twitter, and TicTuc.
Unbeknownst to most, we have been living in a Chinese fascist world. And it is not alarmist to say humanity is in unprecedent peril because we have never faced such a menace before.
The crucial difference of the Chinese fascists from their Italian and German forefathers is that they have infiltrated every aspect of our society and are feeding on our strength and weakness alike.
biolook
8 hours ago
Gee. Did anyone ever thought about what is happening to Chinese American scientists in this country. Many of them charged and arrested on flimsy charges per FBI's China Initiative. When something looks like a duck and quark like a duck it is a duck. So to many Chinese Americans we are living in a "totalitarian" state now.
thumb_up1replyReply
SundayInThePark
7 hours ago
. . . If they are not doing industrial or government spying, they are mostly not going to suffer. Yes as a group Chinese-born folk in the US are subject to higher scrutiny. Given the number of proved cases, is that not rational?
thumb_up2replyReply
Daniel Calto
5 hours ago
This is a reasonable point, but many of these cases have failed at the prosecution stage and the Biden Administration is likely to substantially change this flawed initiative imminently. Where are the corresponding corrective mechanisms in the Chinese state, where universities do not even function independently of state control and ideological scrubbing, and large chunks of relevant topics like Constitutional law are entirely off-limits in the classroom?
Southfranconian_Brigand
11 hours ago
Our man in Havana, hard of hearing.
Our woman in Berlin staring at the eye of the Asian tiger.
Dispatches from the frontlines.
A kitchen sink's worth of ill-defined buzzwords and yet a complete miss.
So what if we change labels to suit our need for more convenient cabinet drawers - does that inform actions any different, for better or worse?
"But consider the hallmarks of fascism: a surveillance state with a strongman invoking racism, nationalism and traditional family values at home, while building up a military for expansion abroad."
But - are they?
"The hallmarks of fascism", that is?
Indicating something so genuinely different from any other period of feudal rule in China's long history or even the rest of the planet's human evolution?
Entirely new concepts all these mentioned aren't, not even 'fascism' or 'communism' - whatever these are supposed to be these days.
"Fascism!"
Mussolini was just more precise in reformulating the old for the exciting future of the industrial age.
China's 'model of governance' may not necessarily be 'fascism' anymore than is the running of a fake democracy, permeated by deeply ingrained racism, allegiance pledged to the daily, ruled by minority dark money in tight cooperation with a manipulated, captured, non-representative two-party system backed by a corrupted 'rule of law', and protected by a tight weave of 'national security', expanded through the ruthless application of financial and military threat and coercion.
The only thing missing there is the return of the "strongman" to his golden toilet ...
Now what?
Don't watch the Olympic Games ...?
Don't shop at Amazon and Walmart ...?
Raise the defense budget another 100 billion ...?
thumb_up1replyReply
SundayInThePark
6 hours ago
Focus: Call their government by the adjectives you prefer, but act as if they are more an opponent than an ally! Some things are trivia, some matter.
Dubbelosix
11 hours ago
China has been consistently....well... China. US Administrations come and go, Brexit happened, USSR rose and fell, etc, etc. China is still chugging along. Why do we keep pretending we can effect change in China? Would i want to live under the Chinese regime?....nope, but i believe 100 years from now, China will still be a communist regime
Democracy Dies In Hypocrisy
7 hours ago
Except that China is communist country in name only. Their goal of "common prosperity" will succeed, just like their total eradication of poverty did, since the country is strongly united without political manipulations by the rich. Their democratic socialism makes democratic capitalism look like a jungle full of predators.
Independent_Veteran
3 hours ago
You think Xi and his party chairmen are not the rich that you have been subjected to?!
Ha! Ha!
dc
11 hours ago
Hard to know what Chinese people really think… honestly how many will speak openly/honestly about their government, especially if they’re against it?
lj-68
11 hours ago
They can’t. They’ll never risk doing so openly. Look at Jack Ma who made critical comments and was disappeared for months. He was high profile. My friends are nobodies and know that speaking out would get them in trouble.
On Chinese social media you can’t even talk about certain topics (non political) without either having your post deleted or your account muted.
thumb_up3replyReply
Democracy Dies In Hypocrisy
7 hours ago
Don't guess. Read this Harvard Kennedy School report that shows 90%+ Chinese support their government. If you know Chinese language, browse their social media to see for yourself. They criticize government but shun rant insurrection. They're wise.
dc
5 hours ago
I think that study is tainted. It didn't include surveying migrant workers, who constitute a nontrivial fraction of China's labor base. Also, the surveys were done in-person with the help of a "private" research firm. Since, no firm is truly private (i.e. all are controlled by the Party), the concern about citizens speaking freely is still an issue. Finally, the results too lopsided to believe. I've reviewed enough surveys to know that 90-95% satisfaction on a topic so broad implies poorly formulated questions and/or the surveyed people weren't really answering truthfully.
thumb_up1replyReply
Democracy Dies In Hypocrisy
4 hours ago
OK. Deny everything unless it's agreeable to you. Harvard Kennedy School probably should learn something from you.
Gil Sara
11 hours ago
I've been calling them "Fascist China" for 10 years. Franco, Mussolini and Hitler would be drooling to have China's total control over the population.
thumb_up1replyReply
Normal Andrew
12 hours ago
For anyone positing that "maybe the Chinese system isn't so bad afterall," remember this. FREE SPEECH DOES NOT EXIST IN CHINA. And by extension, neither does free thought. It's not a system we or anyone else want to model ourselves after. Nothing against the Chinese people themselves, they are victims of the crime syndicate they have for a government.
thumb_up2replyReply
lj-68
11 hours ago
Not only that, China has a system of either hauling you away (think Jack Ma and a couple other billionaires) or utilizing social death which leaves you unable to participate in anyway in Chinese society. That’s way more significant than it sounds.
All without a trial.
thumb_up1replyReply
Democracy Dies In Hypocrisy
7 hours ago
Jack Ma is free without any restrictions. Do you think the US would allow Ant Group to go public with the intent to replace the Federal Reserve?
"Other Chinese billionaires"? Like those criminals who fled to the US with their ill-gained wealth? One prominent example would be Steve Bannon's buddy, Guo Wen-Gui. Wonder why there are so many super rich Chinese around jacking up real estate prices? We welcome them with open arms only because they are rich enemies of our enemy.
ThirdPlanetFromTheSun
12 hours ago
(Edited)
Since the change in editor-in-chief, there seems to be a coordinated effort to drift toward the West Coast libertarian mindset that seems to have taken control of the Silicon Valley mindset.
Anything that violates their need for absolute freedom "to break things" now is considered authoritarian. Despite terms being bandied about, the reality is that places like FL and AZ are not truly "conservative". They are "libertarian". Along the way, they have devolved into a weak form of anarchism and have infected other areas of the country.
The way I view the political spectrum is that it is not a line but a circle. The thing I have observed over decades is that the opposing ends often meet: they use the same tactics (media messaging, manipulating the political / legal system, etc). Despite denials, they will each try to "purify" the population.
These extreme opposite ends of the spectrum will be the ones fighting with each other and anyone else in the middle is caught in the crossfire. People do not remember their history very well: WWII was not only about Nazism. During that same period of the 1930s and 1940s (the era leading up to and including WWII and its immediate aftermath) as well as the 1950s Cold War era, the U.S. was not only dealing with Nazis, they were also dealing with Communism.
But as always the case, history does not repeat but it rhymes. People should be clear what roles that nations (and factions within nations) play in that global stage. The conclusion you will arrive at may not be all that flattering.
thumb_up1replyReply
lj-68
11 hours ago
You’re in the wrong article
thumb_up2replyReply
ThirdPlanetFromTheSun
9 hours ago
(Edited)
And you genius is who exactly?
Don Smith
12 hours ago
(Edited)
Just being part of the master race is not enough . You must also be born in China , reside there and support the CCP . Chinese Americans visiting or living in the PRC ( even those with parents born in China) are derisively called “ bananas “ , yellow on the outside but white on the inside .
thumb_up2replyReply
peemeaney
12 hours ago
Didn't that definition of fascism fit trump/America to a tee?
thumb_up2replyReply
lj-68
12 hours ago
Trump is no longer in office but your whataboutism is noted
thumb_up4replyReply
kimrit
12 hours ago
Well, he ran the government as an authoritarian, and yes he IS scary.
thumb_up1replyReply
M Puckett
12 hours ago
The thing that struck me in 1983 on one of the first tours of China was boarding schools for 3 to 10 year olds, 50 weeks a year.
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
12 hours ago
Just tossing it out there: can China's totalarian government be better for the vast majority of its citizens than anything else?
I get the sense in China, that as long as you don't organize against the govt, you can do what you want.
BrianC3
12 hours ago
Well, you also cannot speak against the government in China.
The Chinese government has accomplished much for its population, this is undeniable. However, the tools of oppression that have been put in place are easy to use for nefarious purposes, and we are starting to see this happen.
Totalitarian governments always start off by giving people what they want in exchange for freedom. But once freedom is lost, government is no longer constrained. Evil people will take the reins of power, and you get Stalin, or Mao, or possibly worse.
thumb_up7replyReply
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
11 hours ago
Fair enough. Good post. When I was in high school we had this big debate about searching lockers...i didnt care because I didnt have any contraband...
I wonder if Chinese people care about political freedom...they have rules, and the Chinese know to follow them....i am not sure if they are arbitrarily applied.
My buddy moved to China and he is now rich....he is free to make money and spend it and travel how he wants...he is not politically active. He prefers China than California.
Normal Andrew
11 hours ago
The rules are arbirtrarily applied. You didn't worry about not having contraband in your locker in high school because you knew what was considered contraband. What if you went to a high school where anything in your locker could be classified as contraband, arbitrarily, if you happend to say the wrong thing or piss off the wrong class mate? You end up locked away in jail forever because your notebook that used to be safe just got classified as contraband for having ideas that are now out of line with the official narrative? (Seriously, just google Sattar Sawut on that last one.) That's life in China. It's an insanely corrupt system, built to protect the interests of Communist party elites.
thumb_up2replyReply
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
dc
12 hours ago
Possible, but I'd say unlikely. These types of governments have bad economic track records. Culturally speaking, the Chinese Party is getting more and more into the weeds of peoples' lives. There's a reason why micromanaging has a negative connotation.
thumb_up2replyReply
lj-68
11 hours ago
No. Have you paid attention to what goes on in China?
China makes all kinds of statements/decrees about law and fairness but the truth is anyone is at the whim of both the general public mob and party and can have their life ruined overnight with no recourse.
That general public mob, by the way, is usually riled up by paid government/agency actors.
thumb_up2replyReply
A result less fundamental and astounding
11 hours ago
The government crops up in alot of places.
Normal Andrew
12 hours ago
It's been widely reported that the Chinese government employs large teams of people to spam comment sections in Western media outlets with their propaganda. You can already see some of their work here. Lots of whataboutism I'm the comments section for this article, it's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention where that's coming from.
thumb_up5replyReply
Mary D.
12 hours ago
Exactly correct. I’ve long urged the Post to regulate what is clearly propaganda, but they have zero interest.
lj-68
11 hours ago
They do it on their own social media too. What they’re not used to is in the west they don’t have moderators on the back end helping them by promoting their comments and making them look popular.
TishTish
12 hours ago
Boycott anything that benefits the lyin', cheatn', commies in Red China.
thumb_up1replyReply
My name is Jim
12 hours ago
Good article. There is a song the Party likes to sing whose translation is "Yellow skin, black eyes, we are one people" referring to the Han. Ask any person from the mainland and they know this song.
Jason4X
12 hours ago
And hey, tankies, I know it may be hard to understand this given how hopelessly locked you are in the CCP’s malignant intellectual feedback loop, but dig this:
NO ONE but Han Chinese wants to live in your fascist hellscape.
thumb_up2replyReply
CityCommuter
12 hours ago
Crud, I just bought something from China and I was looking down on the athletes going to the Olympics there as sellouts. The economy there has gotten rich but somehow more repressive.
It's a terrible situation that China has gone the wrong direction. Another complication is the Chinese students that come here and other scientific collaborations are now compromised.
thumb_up1replyReply
Abnormally Distributed
12 hours ago
Orwellian
A very stable genius from Beijing
Decided to give free speech a fling
He stated opinions
But the CCP minions
Jailed him for insulting Xi Jinping
"National socialism with Chinese characteristics."
thumb_up2replyReply
LongMemory1
12 hours ago
Do not buy Chinese goods. Amazon for example lists origin on most. If it is not listed and turns out to be Chinese, return it.
thumb_up2replyReply
littleway
12 hours ago
It's very difficult to do, but I have been checking more often and trying to buy Australian or American. Lots of things are made in India as well.
thumb_up1replyReply
CityCommuter
12 hours ago
I think it's additionally (not just the political situation) more of a security thing not to buy the electronics, once you have the app for the cameras and stuff it is a security risk.
thumb_up2replyReply
littleway
12 hours ago
They told the athletes at the Olympics to bring dummy phones and leave their real ones at home.
lj-68
11 hours ago
I sure hope they brought sacrificial laptops too
OrdinaryJane
12 hours ago
How funny the main stream media is obsessed with picturing China (or Russia for that matter) in one sided stories. They use their biased views to brainwash the general public. What’s the agenda? Alert the US public so that they can help stage a revolution to turn China into a democracy like the US? Let’s fix our own problems first, shall we. US is losing the global race as we speak.
thumb_up2replyReply
rthomasjr1
12 hours ago
Yeah, putting our heads in the sand in the 1930s to what was happening in Europe because we had so many issues at home really worked out well in the end, huh? Don't worry, we can ignore the rest of the world and just do our thing.
thumb_up3replyReply
Gil Sara
11 hours ago
Are they holding your family in house arrest "Jane"? Go to the FBI for help.
lj-68
11 hours ago
Sometimes an article is just an article but you can easily spot insecure Chinese bad actors by how they see every article as an attack on China.
Y’all are so fragile and scared.
thumb_up1replyReply
Normal Andrew
11 hours ago
Some if it is probably driven by emotional/nationalistic responses but seriously, a lot of these pro-China comments are coming from people doing this as a job, paid for by the CCP.
OrdinaryJane
7 hours ago
(Edited)
For the record, I am not a "paying actor", but an ordinary U.S. citizen who has a distinctive viewpoint. It is disheartening to see my comment that is not popular receive such responses. The slander helps no one, and only makes us more divisive. The world would be better if we could have a civil face to face debate.
Hyphenated_MC
12 hours ago
Would be interested to know how Melissa Chan would narrate what the Chinese people within the PRC actually want. To give credence to the points made in this article, she would need to cover how the people inside the country view their own government. She didn't. We know that for example, a lot of Asians value personal safety highly (just look up the crime rate in Tokyo/HK/Singapore, or even Shanghai, Beijing). With personal safety one can do anything one wants at any time one wants (that's freedom, BTW). The trade is one has to give up some other freedom to have this. What if the Chinese inside the PRC don't mind the surveillance cameras because they also protect them? What if the people in China actually trust their government to look after them? I recently visited my team in Shanghai and Beijing. Honestly, I don't think she fully grasp how the Chinese view their government.
thumb_up2replyReply
CityCommuter
12 hours ago
Hate the cameras in the restrooms, though. That's going to absurd lengths to prevent theft. Supposedly the Chinese are happy to have toilet paper left over as a devil's bargain.
lj-68
11 hours ago
Gee, I don’t know. I’ve got friends who live there. They know better than to openly speak out against the government but they hate what is happening.
Trolls are so obvious.
thumb_up1replyReply
Normal Andrew
11 hours ago
Unfortunately, the Chinese people themselves aren't able to tell us what they want. The CCP won't let them. Maybe they want to be controlled by an unelected group of rich kids of dead revolutionaries like they are now. Maybe they'd rather live in an open and free society. Right now, they can't make the choice or even have the conversation. In Hong Kong, they used to be able to have that conversation and chose to live in a free society, until the CCP decided that they didn't get to live in a free society any more. And don't even start comparing Tokyo or Singapore to anything happening in China, it's beyond offensive.
Hyphenated_MC
9 hours ago
You seems to have chip on your shoulder anyone who doesn't bash China constantly is a troll. My reference to TK/SGP having low crime rate is offensive? You do know Singapore is a fake democracy right? Everyone is tracked, and oppositions sued to oblivion. As to HK, I lived in HK for over 10 year and saw CCP stepping in big time after the riots and I can tell you the rioters were no saints either. Have you actually been in any of these places? You think you know what's going on? Right, you have a friend living in China.....
sitar
12 hours ago
Yes, keep buying Chinese goods.
vvandreev
12 hours ago
Very good analysis. China has become a fascist state.
thumb_up3replyReply
See see
12 hours ago
Just think of all the CEOs who sent their manufacturing to China so they could poo in gold toilets.
thumb_up1replyReply
Justice4AmericaNow
12 hours ago
What the hell is wrong with human nature that this happens. Why do people buy into fascism when they could have freedom?
thumb_up1replyReply
Spaccanapoli
12 hours ago
This is all alarming, and I agree with the author that "fascism" is now the appropriate word for China. I believe that word, with "aspiring" in front of it, now describes our own country's right wing.
thumb_up3replyReply
Justice4AmericaNow
12 hours ago
Why are we doing business with it?
thumb_up1replyReply
lj-68
11 hours ago
Cheap labor and lax labor laws and now that the supply chain is there, businesses are committed.
They were warned but didn’t listen.
captainspires
13 hours ago
China's new dictum to its citizens: Keep your eyes shut, your mouth closed and do what you're told.
thumb_up1replyReply
FGs Roommate
13 hours ago
(Edited)
Well said!
Fredsch
13 hours ago
(Edited)
But you work for Al Jazeera, the propaganda arm of an authoritarian, non-democratic, government
thumb_up2replyReply
Argonautics
13 hours ago
That would be Fox News.
thumb_up2replyReply
lj-68
11 hours ago
(Edited)
lmao. No. They tend to report on the US in a less than favorable light sometimes.
Which is fine. We’re adults. We’re not gonna cry about it
Kathylock
13 hours ago
This is the type of country Trump wants to have in the USA. Too bad the GOP isn't going to stop our own Fascist mouth ...Trump,, Jordan, Cruz, Johnson, and the rest of the insurrectionists that continue today.
thumb_up2replyReply
aifuyou
8 hours ago
If you stop them, then you become fascist. Please try to get this point through your head.
gop4vldmrt
13 hours ago
The last GOP president on Xi Jinping eliminating terms on his presidency effectively making him dictator for life.
“He’s now president for life, president for life. And he’s great,” ... “And look, he was able to do that. I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll have to give that a shot someday,” to cheers and applause from supporters.
thumb_up4replyReply
littleway
12 hours ago
Why that didn't alarm more republicans is a mystery to me.
thumb_up1replyReply
jaysimkin
13 hours ago
China's problem: the Communist Party of China's (CPC) embraces a hate-based political philosophy, Marxism-Leninism (M-L). M-L does not fit a country that is modern, prosperous, and with global influence.
President Xi Jinping, a genocidal murderer, has taken China back to the fear-based governance of founder Mao Zedong (1949-76). Mao's opponents fared poorly.
Fear explains why Beijing was blind-sided by COVID-19. Some in Wuhan knew a new disease had emerged and tried to sound an alarm. They were silenced by fearful seniors and the police. COVID-19 spread in China and thence globally.
Fear drives repression of Hong Kong residents, who like Rule of Law. The CPC rejects any limits on its authority and views Hong Kong as a cancer, that must be killed to prevent its spread.
Even more does the CPC want to eliminate Taiwan, where Chinese vote in free and fair elections. The CPC claims regaining Taiwan is about "national unity". But China has prospered without controlling Taiwan. If - H-eaven forbid - an earthquake sank Taiwan - China would be no less prosperous.
Chinese live better than did any of their ancestors, in the 5,000 years there have been polities in what's now China. The CPC likely would get 60-65% of the vote in a free and fair election. The CPC is too scared to risk an election.
After Mao, the CPC ditched M-L's plainly-failed economics, which kept China poor. The CPC clings to M-L's hate-based political monopoly and has become a millstone around Chinese necks.
Argonautics
13 hours ago
"China's problem: the Communist Party of China's (CPC) embraces a hate-based political philosophy.."
Sounds just like the Republicans...
thumb_up3replyReply
jaysimkin
12 hours ago
(Edited)
This is for Argonautics. You're in error. Karl Marx formulated his basic thesis - that Capitalists and Workers were locked hard into enmity - just when that idea began to be undermined. In effect, he took a snapshot of Germany in the mid-1800s and assumed what he saw would always be so. His successors have remained wedded to that out-dated framework.
Germany introduced pensions in 1889, under its famous (and conservative) Chancellor Otto von Bismarck. He was not moved by humanitarian motives. Rather he saw pensions as a way to promote harmony and so national strength. Britain followed Germany's lead - as to pensions - in 1908.
Marx published his core work - Das Kapital - in 1867 (Volume I). The second and third volumes were published after Marx' death in 1883.
It is thus clear that others saw what Marx had seen - maltreatment of workers by some owners was counterproductive.
Marxists cling to this idea of undying enmity because they lack the brain-power to adjust to change. Their hate-based philosophy hamstrings them.
To attribute to Republicans - as you do - a hate-based philosophy is simply error.
thumb_up1replyReply
Argonautics
10 hours ago
(Edited)
Thanks for your rebuttal Jay. Sorry, I don't buy into the ideology thing. It's solely about control of power and wealth. And yes, the vast majority of Republicans are racist white people.
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
Justice4AmericaNow
12 hours ago
Taiwanese not Chinese. You outed yourself.
jaysimkin
12 hours ago
This is for Justice...Now. Could you please explain your comment?
Mad King _____ the Unelected
13 hours ago
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I love Gina! They made my IPhone! They make all my stuff! Mitt Romney even sent my job there!
thumb_up1replyReply
TimeDilator
13 hours ago
Authoritarianism becomes Totalitarianism
thumb_up1replyReply
timur1
13 hours ago
To a certain extent, democracy if you can afford and dictatorship if you must for a society. The Western countries would rather have Covid than social discipline like the Asian societies, particular China. A little bid of corruption, lawlessness or violence is healthy for creativity, until it becomes too disruptive and destructive for that society. That balance is made by the citizens of the country as a whole, either by election or violent regime change. Taiwan is often made to compare with Mainland China. It never had a civil war there. (Neither US nor Taiwan has a decent bullet train.) Few people in China liked to return to the Good Old Days, when a few educated rich, and it could not even manufacture a nail. The average life span was around 40. Now the basic needs are met. Who knows China would not become a little colorful, corrupt and free, 30 years from now, with legalized money corruption, gays, drugs, sex and gun violence? The cycles repeat.
thumb_up1replyReply
lj-68
11 hours ago
The basic needs are met? How about that energy crisis?
And you lock people up for disagreeing with the party. You allow mob justices and engage in things like social credit and social death. You have wealth inequality while pretending you’re promoting common prosperity.
So save it. You have all the downsides of totalitarianism and none of the benefits.
And I wouldn’t be bringing up COVID control measures to people in the west. Patient 0 was in Wuhan.
Daniel Calto
5 hours ago
High-speed trains in Taiwan are older models but still travel around 180 mph, more than enough to cover a fairly small island that's about 240m north to south. Easy to go from Taipei to Kaosiung and back in one day.
Sunita3883
13 hours ago
China is nation building.The Uyghurs are seen as the only people that may cause political unrest hence the corralling and control.USA did the same to Native people and then resorted to slavery!!Canada did the same to its Native population with indoctrination and killing some.Australia did the same.Germany killed six million! So lets take a deep breath and stop gnashing our teeth against the “genocide” which it is not.
thumb_up2replyReply
Youagreewithme
13 hours ago
China paid Troll
thumb_up3replyReply
summer sky
13 hours ago
Wow. Denial and whataboutism in response to genii death.
Florida votes
13 hours ago
The author makes some strong analogies between current Chinese rule and 20th-Century fascism. But one major difference is that the Chinese have moved slowly and deliberately whereas Hitler and Mussolini moved impulsively. It took about 25 years for China to swallow Hong Kong whereas the European fascists were all dead within about 15 years of taking power. Hitler and Mussolini rashly overestimated their abilities to fight on multiple fronts, and their atrocities on civilians were much more radical than China's slow style of genocide, including Tibet. Over the long run, that might make China much more dangerous to the world even though it is difficult to imagine surpassing the agony of the Second World War.
thumb_up4replyReply
aifuyou
8 hours ago
Actually, new tech has enabled Chinese fascists to move much faster, more intrusively and far-reaching than their Italian and German forefathers ever dreamed of. It has obviously infiltrated this comment section, but more importantly, they swarm like locusts blacking out the sun in social media outlets such as YouTube, Twitter, and TicTuc.
Unbeknownst to most, we have been living in a Chinese fascist world.
Easytravel Ridethewind
14 hours ago
Much to do about nothing.....China is trying to bring itself into the 22 century...and this kind of rhetoric does not do a lot of good for anybody...why not tell how far they have come in the last fifty years instead...the changes have been tremendous...progress has been made on many fronts...just getting the poplation to speak mandarin as national unifying laguage has been a huge accomplishment...the work is on going...people from the Middle East who judge this people for any reason....have no foundation to stand on...China trade helps us... those from the Middle East should work on their own situation...instead of judging others....they know so little about...
THTIVlife
13 hours ago
Who's from the Middle East?
Argonautics
13 hours ago
Jesus?
thumb_up1replyReply
pjnett1
13 hours ago
Hitler made progress on many fronts too. Just think what progress could have been made had his “ongoing work” been allowed to continue!
thumb_up1replyReply
bluesandrhythm
13 hours ago
A bit too much "official-speak" in this comment for me to take it seriously.
thumb_up4replyReply
Aelwyn
13 hours ago
China trade helps us
Who is the "us" you are talking about?
thumb_up3replyReply
Normal Andrew
12 hours ago
Hello Chinese troll.
thumb_up1replyReply
stemerr
14 hours ago
Ms. Chan is essentially right. It's important to keep in mind that much of what the current regime is doing is out of fear of its own people. The constant attempts at ever more control reflect the degree to which their power is inefficient, and their high level of unpopularity, which they mask with relentless (partly coerced, partly paid) online "patriotic" trolling. A really popular government wouldn't need regularly to ban popular search terms. A really popular leader would just smile benignly if a few opponents called him Winnie-the-Pooh instead of frantically banning the name. A constant level of international tension is just as useful a distraction for Xi as it is for Putin.
thumb_up3replyReply
Steverino2001
14 hours ago
So why are we sending our Olympic athletes to that fascist state?
thumb_up4replyReply
MakingSenseOfItAll
14 hours ago
Because there is money to be made.
thumb_up4replyReply
23martha
13 hours ago
Feels like the Berlin Olympics
Argonautics
13 hours ago
(Edited)
Who's we? We're a "free" country, our government doesn't send athletes anywhere. The athletes decide where to go for themselves.
thumb_up1replyReply
Kaonashi
14 hours ago
The policy of the countries who do not wish to live in a world dominated by a totalitarian police state ought to be aimed at blunting the growth of its power and limiting its influence. Policy should be focused on determining what China is attempting to do and actively working to thwart the achievement of those goals.
That means limiting trade and investment, developing alternative sources of whatever China is selling to the world that currently can't be had elsewhere, countering China's investment diplomacy in developing countries, etc.
Western governments just sort of assumed (reading too much Hayek or something) that developing capitalist elements in the Chinese economy would naturally lead to the development of democracy in China. Now, more than 30 years after Tiananmen and after the rise of Xi, we know that's a pipe dream. Stronger measures are required. China is strong, but for the moment, we are still stronger. This is the fateful moment and we need to act.
Doug Neidermeyer
14 hours ago
Out of curiosity, has China acted to hurt US interests? Or would we be doing this to help the Chinese people? If the latter, what makes you sure the average resident of China would be thankful?
thumb_up2replyReply
Shepherd0330
14 hours ago
(Edited)
Also will we be nuking them or sending in foot soldiers? Will the people making money be happy and how will it effect the world or us?
Mountain Dan
14 hours ago
Yes, yes and yes. Look at what the FBI Director said yesterday regarding all the cyber theft of data and intellectual property.
thumb_up2replyReply
Doug Neidermeyer
14 hours ago
(Edited)
I know of the allegations, and I certainly don't believe we should open ourselves up to it. If it is happening, we should counter it. What is the actual economic damage? How much lower is our GDP because of it? We have a huge trade relationship with them. They are major investors in the US.
I'm doubtful that the average resident of China will thank us. Don't underestimate nationalism.
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
Kaonashi
14 hours ago
China is clearly aiming for global primacy, and that is a zero sum game with the US. This isn't about helping the Chinese people, it's about helping everyone else in the world who doesn't want to live in the shadow of a country ruled by one man for life.
The conflict isn't with the Chinese people, but with its totalitarian government.
If China were magically to, say, successfully adopt the Taiwanese model of government overnight as well as its social norms or those of the late mostly democratic city of Hong Kong, I think it would be a wonderful place. But currently China is moving in the opposite and dangerous direction.
thumb_up4replyReply
Doug Neidermeyer
14 hours ago
You are asserting it is a zero sum game.
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
Argonautics
13 hours ago
Because I've been there and talked to them.
Victoria W.
13 hours ago
Out of curiosity, has China acted to hurt US interests?
Rather afraid it has:
“When we tally up what we see in our investigations—over 2,000 of which are focused on the Chinese government trying to steal our information or technology—there is just no country that presents a broader threat to our ideas, our innovation, and our economic security than China”.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/director-wray-addresses-threats-posed-to-the-us-by-china-020122
Chris Douglas
13 hours ago
Was Hayek a proponent of democracy? I’m not sure he was.
Kaonashi
13 hours ago
It's been a long time since I suffered through reading that, but he was more focused on freedom and individuality and the loss of those things through the rise of government control of the economy. Not that he wanted government in the hands of the plebes, of course.
Doug Neidermeyer
14 hours ago
(Edited)
The two largest economies have a lot of joint interest, for instance in promoting stability in the world economic system and preventing instability in problem regions of the world from spilling over.
We have an obligation to act on atrocities. But it simply is not the business of the US to ensure that in everyday life in China, Chinese citizens enjoy all the liberties we enjoy. Nor is it our business if China chooses its leaders in a way we disapprove. Remember that our attempts to install democracy have failed in Iraq, and it has failed in Afghanistan.
From China's perspective, it is the US that started the recent trade war. And they have not encroached on US interests. If we treat China as an enemy, we risk a self fulfilling prophesy.
We can't make enemies with every country we disapprove of. That has a tendency of driving them together. Take on Russia and China at the same time, what's going to happen? Look at the front page of NYT right now.
Mountain Dan
14 hours ago
(Edited)
Don't conflate Russia and China. Russia has an economy the size of Rhode Island.....or some such. Putin is reportedly the world's richest man given how he has economically raped his own country. Xi, as far as I know, is focused on power and global economic domination, not competing with Putin for the world's richest title.
Doug Neidermeyer
13 hours ago
(Edited)
I'm not conflating them. We currently have a very tricky situation with Ukraine. One that risks world stability. Putin is going to China for support because of the fissure between China and the US. Russia had a long period of frosty relations with China.
A result less fundamental and astounding
14 hours ago
China has encroached on US economic interests by capitalizing on our cyber vulnerabilities.
thumb_up1replyReply
Doug Neidermeyer
13 hours ago
What does that mean. Give me a concrete outcome of it. What is the value of that outcome?
Mary D.
12 hours ago
Being an apologist for genocide isn’t a good look, Dougie.
Goodmorning
14 hours ago
We are all going to have to get better about identifying and forcefully opposing fascism everywhere it appears, because it's out in the open and on the rise.
thumb_up2replyReply
Valparaiso Paris
14 hours ago
Chinatactorian ?
Would that be strong enough ?
thumb_up2replyReply
chris F 2016
14 hours ago
Well, why don't you just call China "devil reincarnate" already. Why bother with your fake "journalism (double) standard"?
China isn't shining example of liberty, but you, living in Germany, really think it's Hitler came back to live?
Mary D.
12 hours ago
Your English needs a little work, “Chris.”
Reads Articles
14 hours ago
(Edited)
The meaning of FASCISM is a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition... Webster
thumb_up1replyReply
Argonautics
13 hours ago
(Edited)
Q: What's the difference between a Fascist dictator and a Communist dictator?
A: Nothing
patriot2008
14 hours ago
Time to pull manufacturing by US companies out of China. There's nothing cheap or inexpensive about supporting this government.
thumb_up2replyReply
occormas
14 hours ago
We need ever increasing tariffs on Chinese goods. Probably won’t happen as both the left & right wings of the political parties would block them.
When Trump tried to impose tariffs on Chinese imports, the right blocked him with the cry, “it’s the American consumer who pays the tariffs”. What they left out is that raising prices to change behavior is the whole idea.
Then, there is the right wing Republicans. Does anyone really believe they will support tariffs that hurt their business interests in China?
thumb_up1replyReply
Argonautics
13 hours ago
Tell that to the wealthy donors and corporations that buy our politicians votes in Congress. Good luck.
marcellusavides
14 hours ago
Capitalism inadvertently created China’s wealth and now China is turning into a machine from top to bottom. How ironic that a self-describe communist country is now harnessing capitalism and fascism together for its communist ends…
thumb_up4replyReply
Winged Avenger
12 hours ago
We're outsourcing oppression. We have foreign governments terrorizing their workforces so we don't have to!
thumb_up1replyReply
daver20121
15 hours ago
It is neither an "authoritarian" nor "totalitarian" regime. It is the completely mad oppressive state driven by severe malignant narcissist bent on controlling everything around him. Or in other words, the state Trump and his GQP will create if he is able to get back into office.
thumb_up5replyReply
szl8
15 hours ago
A better article on authoritarian government is "Researchers are asking why some countries were better prepared for covid. One surprising answer: Trust." More intelligent. More honest.
thumb_up1replyReply
George Cornell
15 hours ago
Another day, another string of malicious scurrilous China-sliming articles. Love the phoney use of Asian writers, always ex-HK and Taiwanese, to make the pretence of objectivity. And is there some kind of WaPo quota?
The Chinese have lifted 850,000,000 people out of poverty in a few short years.
You? ~Lead the Western world in poverty especially child poverty. Get real.
You lead the world in covid deaths and even per capita you’re near the top.
You lead the world in pollution, twice as much per capita as the Chinese.
Blah, blah.
You’re looking sillier and sillier.
thumb_up6replyReply
zig2020
15 hours ago
Do you have a camera in your bathroom?
thumb_up8replyReply
George Cornell
13 hours ago
No I watch yours . It competes for space with your NSA surveillance.
Argonautics
13 hours ago
(Edited)
Why are your Ghost Cities empty? Because the CCP leaders don't care who can afford to buy them. They only care that they stole half the money given to build them in the first place.
George Cornell
13 hours ago
Why do you care? Haven’t you got enough on your own pathetic doorstep?
Argonautics
11 hours ago
Just pointing out that you full of poop. That's all.
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
12 hours ago
America and China wont see eye to eye..we luv our freedum....
George Cornell
12 hours ago
Freedum to use bad judgement can’t work in the long run.
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
11 hours ago
No, America is sunsetting..sadly....too much division and inquality.
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
An authoritarian government that doesn’t respect people’s rights but leaves you alone if you don’t cause trouble.
A totalitarian government interferes in every aspect of every citizens life.
thumb_up6replyReply
daver20121
15 hours ago
Baloney. What a tool you are. Or maybe just a silly troll.
Argonautics
13 hours ago
bologna
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
12 hours ago
Thanks for that distinction!
I think China is more the latter...or becoming so.
Killer Rabbit
15 hours ago
There is a big difference between authoritarian and totalitarian regimes. Authoritarian regimes are often military juntas or strongman-type regimes like in Turkey. A totalitarian regime is propped up by so-called civilian militias or a single party, which keep an ongoing watch on the everyday activities of people including within their own homes. China, like the ex-USSR, the current North Korean regime, etc., is a totalitarian regime.
thumb_up8replyReply
Black as Knight
16 hours ago
We could call them "very, very bad, not-good" or simply drop the "ch" and replace it with a "J" and call them "Jina" like Trump did.
That'll show 'em.
But don't expect much from the current president. He's out having icecream.
Chocolate-chocolate chip, anyone?
A result less fundamental and astounding
16 hours ago
Raspberry.
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
I think the Olympic boycott will occur under this president.
thumb_up1replyReply
hackney bunch
15 hours ago
Trump would have been so much stronger. But first he’d have to collect his Chinese loans and all of those made in China hats, innit...
thumb_up1replyReply
daver20121
15 hours ago
Ah a China troll bad-mouthing Biden. Good. That means his latest sanctions against China must be hurting. Cool.
thumb_up3replyReply
about_face
16 hours ago
Why is/was Trump acceptable and strongly supported by the GoP with a closet full of Fascist supporters ?
President Xi, a strong leader that made the mark of bringing 500 m Chinese out of poverty, a fascist? Even the Uyghurs that western media denounced as being in a state of 'concentration camp' like control by the CCP enjoys better standards of living than some homeless in NY, Chicago, London.
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
This is nonsense on a parallel with excusing Hitler because he created full employment.
thumb_up6replyReply
about_face
2 hours ago
Xi, did not invade ukraine nor afghanistan. hitler did. us did.
Make_Your_Bed_Everyday
16 hours ago
I don't pretend to understand China.
I do recognize that their culture is very, very different than the culture in the west in spite of the fact that they now consume like we do.
And culture is the strongest force on the planet.
thumb_up4replyReply
A result less fundamental and astounding
16 hours ago
Culture can't change the fact we are all born as individuals.
Make_Your_Bed_Everyday
16 hours ago
That was rather inane
thumb_up4replyReply
A result less fundamental and astounding
16 hours ago
Thrash away.
about_face
16 hours ago
Let me just pick on one point from Melissa Chan's article - Jack Ma. She doesn't seems to have delved deeper into why Jack Ma was given the royal treatment he so deserves.
The overhyped humble beginnings of Alibaba (like that of Apple, FB, stories, that Americans and the adoring fans of Silicon Valley so loved), is folklore by itself.
When Jack drew the comparison of the Chinese banking system as being archaic as a Chinese pawn shop, he shot off something more than he could chewed on. Jack, forgot he made money off the ordinary Chinese people and from the initial support given by patrons from the CCP. He followed the American playbook.
thumb_up1replyReply
A result less fundamental and astounding
16 hours ago
There are many American playbooks.
thumb_up1replyReply
althing7
16 hours ago
I agree with this article's analysis. To use more jargon-heavy poli-sci terms, it's pointing out that China has transitioned from an authoritarian regime to a totalitarian regime.
thumb_up5replyReply
A result less fundamental and astounding
16 hours ago
Maybe "transitioned back..." is more precise.
thumb_up4replyReply
ObjectiveReader1
17 hours ago
A great column.
The mainstream media, including wapo, has defended china for too long.
thumb_up8replyReply
The Templar
17 hours ago
An excellent article. Thank you. Communism and fascism are more closely related than they are apart. Nazis we’re National Socialists. The question is does China really want to expand past beyond what it thinks it’s entitled to? Is world domination it’s ultimate real goal?
thumb_up2replyReply
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
This is absolute nonsense. They are historically unrelated and by what economic measures can the current regime be called “communist”.
There’s a reason why the Holocaust is the worst crime in history. It’s cause was nationalism and racism, not economic policy.
thumb_up4replyReply
amethystmarbles
14 hours ago
Well, they do own a lot of our national debt.
The 'belt and road' initiative in Africa probably isn't as altruistic as we're being led to believe. Case in point: China promised Montenegro a really nice coastal road, and even offered to finance it. Then China decided they didn't need to finish the road before they called in the loans. The rest of the world had to intervene financially to keep Montenegro from becoming part of China.
Don't think they won't try it again.
Time to use the 25th
17 hours ago
China is what the Democrats are striving to replicate here.
thumb_up1replyReply
Chuckanut Sandstone
17 hours ago
Whatever, dude.
thumb_up9replyReply
Makuakanelua
16 hours ago
Who needs camps in America when the Republican base is effectively killing themselves off with covid denial.
thumb_up8replyReply
The Radical Centrist
16 hours ago
Perhaps. But the GOP sounds more like fascists everyday. So, what’s going on here? If you are taking sides, then you are not seeing the reality of the elites on both sides are fighting for control of our corrupt government.
thumb_up6replyReply
Patrick Feldman
18 hours ago
China is a slave state with a total military-industrial complex.
thumb_up5replyReply
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
Not exactly. Most Chinese do well out of the regime and the regime works hard to keep it that way. Slavery is reserved for minorities and dissidents. Self-evidently it’s not a total military-industrial complex as we’re both typing on Chinese made devices.
Given the industrial use of prison labour in America and the scale of the military budget here, stone throwing on either ground would be hypocritical.
thumb_up1replyReply
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
12 hours ago
Good points....
Bod Abra
18 hours ago
China is a colonial Empire with Emperor Xi and the ruling class of CCP running a totalitarian police state committing religious and cultural and linguistic genocide against nonHan peoples. Plus Cantonese will be governed by officials promoted for their brutality in Tibet and East Turkistan.
Officially self described as the dictatorship of the proletariat where the few CCP princelings lord it over the poor peoples.
thumb_up5replyReply
kpitanywayUwant
18 hours ago
(Edited)
The piece tacitly speaks to what should be the proper role of government in your life. It's the American tradition based on the Enlightenment precept of unenumerated natural rights, any abridgement of which must be rigorously justified vs. an approved list of rights that government says that you can have. The former, a radical experiment still in progress; the latter, a monotonous, default absolutism of despots. I wonder if those who indulge in the theory of rigid dominant/oppressed binaries, where all traditions of the dominant must be aggressively deconstructed, really think about where their choices can take them.
thumb_up1replyReply
Make_Your_Bed_Everyday
16 hours ago
Interesting
Is your point that we should also be wary of freedom?
A result less fundamental and astounding
16 hours ago
I didn't read it that way.
Make_Your_Bed_Everyday
16 hours ago
I would like to see he or she expound a bit.
thumb_up1replyReply
kpitanywayUwant
11 hours ago
(Edited)
The point is to use your freedom wisely; and be careful of what you ask for.
BarnabasCo
18 hours ago
Newsflash: when totalitarian authorities tell you they need to put surveillance cameras in washrooms to combat the national tidal wave of toilet paper theft, you don’t have to believe them.
thumb_up4replyReply
redbird7
15 hours ago
You may not believe them, but you don't really have any say in the matter, do you?
thumb_up2replyReply
BarnabasCo
12 hours ago
(Edited)
What kind of idiotic comment is this? None of us who post here do, really. But all of us have our say anyway. It’s why it’s called a chat board.
Vagabond Rambler
18 hours ago
(Edited)
To keep the wool pulled over the Chinese people's eyes, and stay in power as the unelected autocracy, the CCP has become an increasingly wicked entity in both word and deed. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they had some fake Covid tests on hand, especially for the purpose of keeping rival athletes out of certain competitions to raise the gold medal chances for Chinese athletes (and the resulting CCP motherland propaganda that goes along with that).
thumb_up5replyReply
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
More than propaganda, they use prosperity. When that goes, what will happen?
thumb_up1replyReply
FDJBMLK
18 hours ago
No one I know will be watching one minute of these Olympics. Several people I know, probably our family included, WILL get a list of sponsors and advertisers, and will boycott their products and services to the extent humanly possible. We already pay extra to buy products NOT made in China. I appreciate the author's analysis of the proper label--it means something. I prefer totalitarian to fascist.
Not all fascist regimes are totalitarian, but all totalitarian regimes are fascist and much worse. China is in that category. I'm not being holier than thou, either. If the thought police predominantly on the right in particular, but some the left as well, had their way, we could go down the same path, governed in our speech and even our thoughts. No thanks.
thumb_up8replyReply
Some sense
18 hours ago
Fascism is European, not Chinese. Xi has imported it to suit his goals.
thumb_up2replyReply
Erik Dalina
15 hours ago
China has millennia of tyranny behind it. It doesn’t need to import.
thumb_up1replyReply
S_P_MAA
18 hours ago
Nations that believe in freedom, democracy, secularism, fundamental rights … must boycott the fascist state of China that stands for everything diametrically opposed to our cherished values.
They are despotic rogues. Why consort with them so shamelessly?
thumb_up8replyReply
Miss Foreign Affairs
18 hours ago
WHY are countries like the US participating in the Olympics? The only reason i can see is narcissism.
thumb_up3replyReply
Lorenzo P-Diddy Beria
12 hours ago
Oh come on, get off your horse..why do we buy cheap chinese stuff...or rather chinese stuff, as their manufacturing base has matured.
neelk1
19 hours ago
It’s slippery territory: a surveillance state with an aspiring strongman espousing traditional family values and engaging in military buildup and adventurism—a good description of America during the W Bush administration.
thumb_up1replyReply
Chuckanut Sandstone
17 hours ago
Your facile comparison minimizes the extent of human rights abuses currently underway in China.
thumb_up5replyReply
trblmkr1
19 hours ago
But then we would be importing all of our…stuff from a fascist country.
Whoops!
thumb_up2replyReply
The Old Vermonter
19 hours ago
I suppose Ms. Chan expects us to somehow stop this.
What does she have in mind?
Fox-n-Owl
19 hours ago
She told us where to start—journalists using more accurate vocabulary.
thumb_up4replyReply
Chuckanut Sandstone
17 hours ago
Stop buying stuff made in China. I've done so for the past 2 years, and it's not that hard.
thumb_up2replyReply
Breakbone
19 hours ago
Nationalkommunistisch, or Natcom
A form of fascism.
thumb_up1replyReply
Oz Optimist
19 hours ago
Very thoughtful article.
thumb_up5replyReply
kuvasz
19 hours ago
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell
thumb_up10replyReply
Shardanacles
19 hours ago
I just call them Genociders.
What they are doing to the Muslims in western China is Genocide, and they should be boycotted by the rest of the world for it until they stop.
Not that I expect that to happen.
All of the countries they now own can not do that, and the rest are addicted to their goods and precious metals.
thumb_up6replyReply
Apthard
19 hours ago
What is america doing across the breadth of North Africa? Mauritania Chad niger mali Libya Tunisia Somalia Kenya Mozambique , then north to Yemen Syria and Iraq…. The support of the theft of land in Israel and the imprisonment of 2 million in Gaza …. You don’t even declare a war …. You bomb at will, trial by drone. Look at yourselves usa. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
thumb_up2replyReply
Shardanacles
19 hours ago
(Edited)
I live in Canada.
But nothing the US is involved in is as horrendous as what the Chinese are doing to Muslims in Western China.
thumb_up10replyReply
Apthard
18 hours ago
Yeah your right it’s al, precision an d surgical death from on high….. just like in Afghanistan Right?
READ MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION >
freeurmindinstead
19 hours ago
The problem with the word fascism is that it is easily confused with Fascism, an actual historic movement. Totalitarian works for me.
