埃隆·马斯克在迪拜世界政府峰会上谈 DOGE

直播：埃隆·马斯克在迪拜世界政府峰会上谈论 DOGE 和人工智能

美联社 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGJE6ahMyKk

Key part

我想，有几种描述方式，但最终的行动是一样的，比如缩小政府规模，让政府对人民更加负责，我认为这将为人民带来更好的结果，你知道我说的是，我们在这里实际上是官僚统治，而不是人民民主统治，所以，为了恢复人民统治，这意味着缩小联邦政府的规模，基本上就是减少监管，你知道，随着时间的推移，出现了大量的过度监管，这是长期繁荣的必然结果，你会得到越来越多的规则和法规，随着时间的推移，更多的法律会积累起来，而摆脱规则和法规的正常强制功能是战争，所以它需要某种生存战争，你必须重新设定，以避免在战争中失败，这是从字面上看，纵观历史，这一直是清理法律法规堆积的主要强制功能，如果没有这些，每年都会出台更多法律法规，直到最终一切都是非法的，一切都是不允许的，这就是我们现在的情况，所以，我们的目标是减少监管，减少政府支出，这样经济才能增长得更快，也许经济可以以 4% 或 5% 的速度增长，就实际有用的商品和服务产出而言，然后政府支出可以减少约 3% 或 4%，大约一万亿美元或更多，其净效应是从 2025 年到 2026 年没有通货膨胀，所以这将是相当了不起的，而且如果美国政府购买更少的债务，我认为情况会是这样，如果赤字从 2 万亿下降到 1 万亿，那么政府提供的债务就会减少 1 万亿，当然会下降利率大幅下降，这意味着人们的抵押贷款、汽车贷款、信用卡贷款、学生贷款，无论他们有多少债务，他们的债务偿还都会减少，所以我认为这将使普通美国人受益，我认为我们正在做的一些事情也将对其他国家有所帮助，因为新政府对干涉其他国家事务的兴趣减少了，你知道，我认为美国在国际事务中表现得有些咄咄逼人，这可能会引起许多听众的共鸣，我认为我们应该让其他国家管好自己的事，美国应该管好自己的事，而不是到处推动政权更迭，所以对其他国家来说，这可能也是一件好事，所以与其等待战争发生，不如去与政府的官僚机构开战，是的，我们本质上只是支持，

I guess there's well there's a few ways to describe it but the actions end up being the same um which is like reducing the size of government um and making the government much more accountable to to the people I think is going to lead to a better outcome for the people um you know what I've said is that um we really have here uh rule of the bureaucracy as opposed to
rule of the people democracy so uh in order we want to restore rule of the people and so what that means is reducing the size of the federal government
um uh basically reducing regulation um you know there's there there's a tremendous amount of of overregulation that's happened over time um and this is this is an inevitable consequence of a
long period of prosperity is that you're going to get more and more uh rules and regulations more laws accumulate over
time and the normal forcing function for getting rid of rules and regulations is war so it needs to be some kind of
existential War where you you have to um do a reset in order to and avoid being defeated in a war this is literally the that throughout history has been the main forcing function for clearing out an accumulation of laws and regulation in the absence of that you you every year you get more laws and regulations until eventually everything is illegal and nothing is permitted and that's sort of the situation we have these days so um so the the aspiration here is a reduction in um regulation um and
reduction in govern spending such that um the economy is able to grow faster um maybe the economy can grow at four or 5% potentially of in terms of real useful
goods and services output and the uh and then government spending can be reduced
um by about 3 or 4% of the economy about maybe a trillion dollars or more um and the net effect of that would be no inflation um from 25 2025 to 2026 um so that would be quite remarkable and also if the US government is buying less debt which I think will be the case if it's if the deficit drops from 2 trillion to 1 trillion uh then there'll be 1 trillion less debt that the government you Suppy which will drop of course the interest rates to drop significantly um and that means people's uh mortgage payments uh car payments credit card payments student loans whatever debt they have uh will their debt payments will be less so I think this is something that will benefit the average American um I think some of the things we're doing also will be helpful to hopefully helpful to other countries because with the new Administration there's uh less interest in interfering with the Affairs of of other countries um you know I think uh a lot there the times the United States has been kind of pushy in international Affairs um which may resonate with a number of members of the audience uh um and I think we should uh in general leave other countries to their own business basically America should mind its own business you know um rather than push for regime change all over the place um so yeah um probably a good thing for other countries too so of waiting for a war to happen you went to war against the bureaucracy in the government yes we're we're we're essentially just we're with you know the uh support um an

<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

尊敬的来宾女士们先生们欢迎来到 2025 年世界政府峰会的第三天，下一个环节是与埃隆·马斯克和他的阁下进行的题为无聊的城市人工智能和 Doge 的对话

埃隆·马斯克

是的，首先，我认为我们得到了至少美国公众的大量支持，我认为也许来自世界各地，当公众被吸引到某种提高政府效率的问题上时，事实上，我相信这是最受关注的单一问题，这意味着它是一种吸引所有类型选民的东西，我认为提高政府效率，我认为几乎 70% 的支持率相当高，基本上比任何其他问题都多，所以我认为人们非常支持，嗯，显然，你知道有一些因素官僚机构不支持，因为我们正在将他们从政府部门转移到私营部门，所以你知道，在高层，这有点像我们真的只是将人们从政府部门的低生产率甚至负生产率角色转移到私营部门的高生产率角色，这样做的净效应是增加有用商品和服务的产出，从而提高普通美国人的生活水平和福祉，你通常有一个关键目标，你打算在每一个 IND 中实现这个目标，所以人类和多行星物种与特斯拉一起开创了一个省钱的时代，这是在做其他事情吗？你给自己安排的一项艰巨任务是什么？嗯，所以嗯，我想有几种描述方式，但最终的行动是一样的，就像缩小政府规模，让政府对人民更加负责，我认为这将为人民带来更好的结果。我说过的是，我们这里实际上是官僚统治，而不是人民民主，因此，为了恢复人民统治，这意味着要缩小联邦政府的规模，嗯，基本上就是减少监管，嗯，你知道，随着时间的推移，过度监管已经非常严重，这是长期繁荣的必然结果，就是你会得到越来越多的规则和法规，随着时间的推移，越来越多的法律会积累起来，而摆脱规则和法规的正常强制功能是战争，所以这需要某种生存战争，你必须重新设定，以避免在战争中失败，这实际上是纵观历史，清除积累的法律和法规的主要强制功能，如果没有这些，你每年都会得到更多的法律和法规，直到最终一切都是非法的，什么都不被允许，这就是情况我们现在有，所以，我们的愿望是减少监管，减少政府支出，这样经济就能增长得更快，也许经济可以以实际有用商品和服务产出 4% 或 5% 的速度增长，然后政府支出可以减少，大约 3% 或 4%，大约一万亿美元或更多，而这样做的净效应是从 2025 年到 2026 年没有通货膨胀，所以，这将是相当了不起的，而且如果美国政府购买更少的债务，我认为情况会是这样，如果赤字从 2 万亿下降到 1 万亿，那么政府提供的债务就会减少 1 万亿，当然利率也会大幅下降，这意味着人们的抵押贷款、汽车贷款、信用卡贷款、学生贷款，无论他们有多少债务，他们的债务支付都会减少我认为这会给普通美国人带来好处，我认为我们正在做的一些事情也会对其他国家有所帮助，因为新政府对干涉其他国家事务的兴趣减少了，你知道，我认为美国在国际事务中表现得有些咄咄逼人，这可能会引起许多听众的共鸣，我认为我们应该总体上让其他国家管好自己的事，美国应该管好自己的事，而不是到处推动政权更迭，所以对其他国家来说，这可能也是一件好事，所以你不是等着战争发生，而是去与政府的官僚机构开战，是的，我们基本上只是支持你，嗯

LIVE: Elon Musk speaks about DOGE and AI at World Governments Summit in Dubai

Associated Press
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGJE6ahMyKk

distinguished guests ladies and gentlemen welcome to the third day of the world government Summit 2025, the next session is a conversation titled boring cities Ai
and Doge with Elon Musk and his Excellency 

Elon Musk

yes first of all I think we've got quite a lot of support from
the at least the American public and I think from maybe around the world um the when they when the the public is pulled on sort of improving government efficiency in fact it is I believe the highest pulling uh single uh issue meaning that that it is uh something that appeals to voters from you know of all types and I I think improving government efficiency I think was like almost 70% support quite a lot basically more than more than any other issue so the I think the the people are very supportive um obviously the you know there's certain elements of the bureaucracy that are not supportive because we are making we are moving them from the government sector to the private sector so the you know really at a high level this is kind of like um we're really just we're moving people from low to sometimes negative productivity roles in the government sector to higher productivity roles in the private sector and the net effect of that will be an increase in the output of useful goods and services um which increases the standard of living and well-being of the the average American and you usually have one key Target that you aim to achieve in every single IND that you have so humanity and multiplanetary species with Tesla it's usher in an era saving money is it doing
something else what is the one mean task that you have for yourself um yeah so there's uh I I
guess there's well there's a few ways to describe it but the actions end up being the same um which is like reducing the size of government um and making the government
much more accountable to to the people I think is going to lead to a better outcome for the people um you know what
I've said is that um we really have here uh rule of the bureaucracy as opposed to
rule of the people democracy so uh in order we want to restore rule of
the people and so what that means is reducing the size of the federal government
um uh basically reducing regulation um you know there's there there's a
tremendous amount of of overregulation that's happened over time um and this is this is an inevitable consequence of a
long period of prosperity is that you're going to get more and more uh rules and regulations more laws accumulate over
time and the normal forcing function for getting rid of rules and regulations is war so it needs to be some kind of
existential War where you you have to um do a reset in order to and avoid being
defeated in a war this is literally the that throughout history has been the main forcing function for clearing out
an accumulation of laws and regulation in the absence of that you you every year you get more laws and regulations
until eventually everything is illegal and nothing is permitted and that's sort of the situation we have these days so
um so the the aspiration here is a reduction in um regulation um and
reduction in govern spending such that um the economy is able to grow faster um
maybe the economy can grow at four or 5% potentially of in terms of real useful
goods and services output and the uh and then government spending can be reduced
um by about 3 or 4% of the economy about maybe a trillion dollars or more um and
the net effect of that would be no inflation um from 25 2025 to 2026 um so
that would be quite remarkable and also if the US government is buying less debt which I think will be the case if it's
if the deficit drops from 2 trillion to 1 trillion uh then there'll be 1 trillion less debt that the government
you Suppy which will drop of course the interest rates to drop significantly um and that means people's uh mortgage
payments uh car payments credit card payments student loans whatever debt they have uh will their debt payments
will be less so I think this is something that will benefit the average American um I think some of the things
we're doing also will be helpful to hopefully helpful to other countries because with the new Administration
there's uh less interest in interfering with the Affairs of of other countries
um you know I think uh a lot there the times the United
States has been kind of pushy in international Affairs um which may
resonate with a number of members of the audience uh um and I think we should uh in general leave other countries to
their own business basically America should mind its own business you know um rather than push
for regime change all over the place um so yeah um probably a good thing for
other countries too so of waiting for a war to happen you went to war against the bureaucracy in the
government yes we're we're we're essentially just we're with you
know the uh support um an

在特朗普总统的指导下，我们正在缩减官僚机构的规模，摆脱多余的监管，而且还有这么多的机构和监管机构，他们实际上互相踩踏，这有点像在一场体育比赛中，场上的裁判太多，有时裁判比球员还多，现在这将是一场愚蠢的比赛，你知道，如果比赛球员不能传球而不打到裁判，但在美国，情况已经到了那个地步，所以，大约有 450 个联邦机构，各种各样的机构，嗯，那是更多的机构，几乎是自美国建国以来平均每年两个机构，我的意思是，你真的需要多少个机构来管理一个国家，我是 99 个，而不是 450 个，这是肯定的，所以你如何保证你想要实现的所有令人难以置信的成就，在节约方面，在影响方面美国人的生活不会在四年内发生逆转，通常这个周期每四年就会逆转一次，你知道它会产生如此大的影响以至于不会逆转吗，有什么方法可以确保进步会持续下去吗？我认为我们确实需要删除整个机构，而不是留下部分机构，因为如果你留下部分机构，这很容易，就像留下杂草一样，如果你不去除杂草的根，那么杂草很容易重新生长，但如果你去除杂草的根，它并不能阻止杂草重新生长，而是让它变得更加困难，所以我们必须删除整个机构，其中很多，嗯，这并不是说在新的政府中，随着时间的推移官僚主义不会增加，但它会从一个低得多的基线开始，嗯，所以这是朝着正确方向迈出的一步，我认为我们将总体这里的目标是为繁荣奠定基础，这种繁荣将持续数十年，也许几个世纪，嗯，是的，但永远没有什么是永恒的，嗯，但我认为我们可以大大加强美国的基础，其他政府可以从美国学到什么教训，你说你衬衫上的税收支持只是技术还是还有其他东西，你如何处理效率，嗯，一个令人震惊的呃问题百分比，或者对那些知道它的人来说可能并不令人震惊，但很大一部分问题是改进政府运行的技术，所以嗯，美国政府运行在数千台计算机上，其中许多计算机都是过时的，运行着非常古老的软件，而且计算机之间不会相互通信嗯，嗯，所以这就是为什么技术支持是一种真实的东西嗯，为了使政府更有效率，你必须改进技术嗯，你可能听说过我最近使用的例子嗯，当特朗普总统签署嗯，总督行政命令之一嗯，美国政府工作人员退休的难度就像退休的最高退休率是每月 10,000 美元，原因是退休完全是纸质工作，现在它是手动计算的文书工作，放在信封里，然后从矿井中取出并存放在矿井中，然后你知道影响联邦工作人员退休率的因素之一是宾夕法尼亚州的电梯速度，这很奇怪，因为它不是，它应该是数字化的，你知道，嗯，所以当我们说为什么不数字化时，他们说我们从 2014 年开始实施数字数字化计划，所以已经 11 年了，所以我们问你取得了多少进展，他们说 B 你的意思是你给自己打 B 级，不，我们在 B 上，所以我想嗯，好吧，我们需要真正提供一些技术支持，否则人们甚至无法退休，即使他们想退休这很糟糕，你知道有很多软件系统需要更新和修复，在某些情况下，删除了很多东西，很多东西应该自动化，我的意思是，就运营矿场的美国公民数量而言，大约有一千人在这个矿场工作，那里存放着纸张，但他们应该从事其他工作，即生产对公众更有价值的东西，所以我的意思是，即使有人只是在花园里种西红柿，然后在农贸市场上出售，这也比在 MFT 携带马尼拉信封更有用，你可以肯定地说，很多东西都是这样的，你知道，并不是说任何一件事都特别困难，但有大约 10,000 件事情需要改进，所以这是效率

d direction of the of President Trump we are reducing the size of the bureaucracy um getting rid of excess regulatory uh regulations and and there's also so many um agencies and Regulatory authorities that they actually step on each other's feet it's it's kind of like having a a sports game when where there are too many referees on the field like more referees than players at times now that would be a silly game you know if the play players
can't pass the ball without hitting a referee you know um but it was kind of getting to that point in the US so so
there's roughly 450 uh federal agencies of one kind or another um that's that's more agencies that's almost that's almost an average of two agencies per year since the bation of the United States so I mean how many agencies do you really need to run a country I'm 99 not 450 that's for sure so and and how do you guarantee that all the incredible achievements that you aim to have in terms of savings in terms of you know impacting the uh lives of the American people are not going to be reversed in four years typically this cycle gets reversed every four years you know do you think it's going to be so impactful that it won't be reversed is there any ways that you can you know ensure that the progress is going to be continuous well I think I think we we do need need to um delete entire agencies as opposed to leave part of them behind because if you leave part of them behind it's easy it's kind of like if leaving a weed if you don't get remove the roots of the weed then it's easy for the weed to grow back but if you remove the roots of the weed it doesn't stop weeds from ever growing back but it makes it harder so
so we have to really delete entire agencies many of them um and uh that's not to say there won't be an increase over time of bureaucracy in some new Administration but it will it'll be from a much lower Baseline um so so it's it's a step in the right direction I think we'll the overarching goal here is like is to lay the foundation for Prosperity that will
last many decades you know maybe centuries and uh yeah but be forever nothing's forever um but I think we can strengthen the found ations of the United States substantially and what lessons can other governments learn from the US you say tax support on your uh shirt is that only technology or is there other things how do you approach efficiency well a a shocking uh percentage of the problem or maybe not shocking for those who who know it but a big percentage of the problem is improving the technology that the government runs on so the um the US government runs on a collection of thousands of computers many of them Antiquated running very old software that and the computers don't talk to each other um and uh so so that's why tech support is kind of a real thing um in order to make govern more efficient you have to improve the technology um you may have heard about the example um I used recently with when
President Trump was signing um one of the Doge executive orders um of the the difficulty of of um US government workers retiring like the retire maximum retirement rate is is 10,000 a month um and the reason for that is because the retirement is is entirely paperwork right now it's manually calculated paperwork that's put in an envelope and then taken down a m shaft and stored in a mine um and then the you know one of
the things that affects the rate at which federal workers can retire is the speed of the elevator in a m in
Pennsylvania which is bizarre because it's not it should be digital you know um so then when we said well why isn't
it digital it's they said well we have had a digital digitization program going
since 2014 so it's been 11 years so then we asked well so what how much progress
have you made and they said B you mean you're giving yourself a grade of B no we're on the letter
B so I'm like hm okay we're going to need to really provide some tech support
here um like otherwise literally people can't even retire like even if they want to it's pretty bad um you know there's
there's just a there's a lot of software systems that need to be updated and fixed um in some cases deleted uh a lot
of things that should really should be automated I mean in terms of the number of say you uh US citizens that are
operating the mine it's about a thousand people are working on this mine uh where where the paper are stored but they
should they should ideally be working on something else that is they should be working on producing goods and services
that are a much higher value to the public to the you know so I mean really
even even if somebody just grew tomatoes in their garden and sold them at the farmers market that would be more useful
than carrying manila envelopes down in mft you know safe to say um so a lot of
the stuff is it's like that you know it's uh it's not like it's not like any one thing is particularly difficult but
there are like 10,000 things that need to be improved you so it's efficiency

<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>

through Innovation rather than efficiency through austerity and cost cutting specifically right so you're trying to do both at the same time maybe focus more on tax support than cutting costs well by improving the technology the costs do reduce so you know it's very expensive to have a th people operate a mine with doing pay for retirement uh whereas that really should just be digitized and be a computer that's with the information stored in the cloud and it's very straightforward and low cost so automation you know will help there a
lot um and and then but like a lot of things just really shouldn't exist you
know they're kind of vestigial um you know we've uh a lot of attention
has been on the sort of USA for example you know when we looked at a lot of those programs we're like we should like look why why does this actually exist is there really a need for it um you know there's like National Endowment for democracy but I'm like okay well how much democracy have they achieved lately you know I don't know not much um so you know the the picture they have on their website is a picture of Reagan and gachev that's been a while you know that was like the ' 80s so it's not like obviously not
opposed to democracy or you know there's all these things that get funded but we're like well why we why is this new taxpayer money I don't think it doesn't seem like it does um so you know there's a lot of sort of pushing Dei worldwide you know this obviously the Trump Administration doesn't agree with and we want to terminate that stuff which we are um and
uh you know make sure the schools focus on improving basic education of of kids
um as president Trump said I think yesterday uh maybe today um the United
States is currently ranked 40th out of 40 in the oecd for Education which is pretty bad you know
you can't you mean let but but not but in terms of spending the United States is spending a tremendous amount for for
student but achieving very weak results so that you know that's just a
case where okay we need to spend less money and get better results it's it's it's like I mean a lot of it a lot of you can think of it sort
of like it's like in a way it's like a big company like a big uh Corporation
American Incorporated and um you know just like with with Twitter there was a
lot of stuff that was being done that was unnecessary you know we TW in case of Twitter we reduced the staff by 80%
but at the same time improved the functionality and capabilities of the site dramatically um and accomplish more in a
year than they previously accomplished in five years so so it's it's like a corporate
turnaround but at a at a much larger scale um and um you know we all giving
generous uh you know exit packages like you know if people retire they get paid
all the way through September uh they can go on vacation they can get a second job they can do
whatever they want um and we we we can't actually pay them any more than through September because that's the the
Congressional appropriation is only through the end of the government financial year which ends in
September so you know so I think there'll be like some disruption but at the end of the day we'll have people
move from like I said from low to negative productivity roles to in in the government sector to higher productivity roles in the private sector can we pivot 
to artificial intelligence 
问

I'm sure you know you've been seeing what deeps has done and um all the uh claimed achievements that they've had 

答
I know that we've been speaking for a while about grock 3 and um that grock 3 is going to be a true disruptor in the AI space when are we going to see that and what capabilities can we expect from Gro 3 well I mean grock 3 grock 3 has um very very powerful reasoning
capabilities um so uh in the tests that we've done thus far grock 3 is
outperforming anything that's been released that we're aware of um so
that's that's a that's a good good sign um it's uh in fact at times I think
grock 3 is kind of scary smart you're like wow this thing's
smart it's kind of scary gr 3 is scary it's like wow this thing's you know it comes up with solutions that you didn't even think were like you wouldn't even anticipate
you know not obvious Solutions um so grock 3 was trained with the most
amount of compute and I think very efficiently trained um also notably
grock 3 was trained on on a lot of synthetic data so um and and and then it goes back and
forth through the data and tries to achieve logical consistency so so when if if it's got
data that is uh wrong it'll it'll actually reflect upon that and remove the data that is that is wrong it does not Concord with reality so it's it's base reasoning is very good in fact the even without fine-tuning roock 3 the base model is better than grock
2 so with so we're really in the final stages of polishing grock 3 probably it
gets released in a in about a week or two so pretty pretty soon um I don't
want to be Hasty in the release because a lot of the the the final polish
uh is necessary for a great user experience so um some ways you can think
of it like a house you know that last 5% where you do the finish the the drywall and and do the painting and the trimming even though it's not much work it transforms the the house yeah um so it's that just want to make sure that that last 5% is done really well um and uh that's a week maybe two weeks um I think it'll be very good and I think this might be we think it'll be better than anything else and then maybe this might be the last time that any AI is better than Gro looking forward to it everyone's I think excited about it um so I just want to touch upon a topic that was um quoted in the media you offered I think they said um group that was led by you offered 97 billion for uh acquiring open AI um I you know a little round of us so I was personally um involved in the meeting that you and Sam hosted in 2017 in La if you remember and you know at that point of time you were the single largest shareholder I think you
contributed 50 million to the company so it must hurt I don't have any shares actually I have no shares in open but at that time it was a nonprofit right and it must hurt that that you you need to pay 97 billion for something that you
paid $50 million for in the past yeah but but I have I have a yes fate loves
irony so I have a specific question here can you actually build a company like
open Ai and take it to the scale that you want to take as a nonprofit is it possible that you build a company that requires billions of dollars in compute capabilities to build these models while being a nonprofit or was it wishful
thinking in the beginning and then you know you guys parted ways because it couldn't work well I mean I think the evidence is there in that open AI has gotten this far while having at least a sort of dual profit nonprofit role what they're trying to do now is completely delete the nonprofit and and and and uh that seems a really going too far you know um the I I I provided all of the funding for open ey in the beginning for the first almost $50 million for nothing for as a
nonprofit um and it was meant to be open source and so you know I think this is
analogous to like if you pay a BN if you find a nonprofit to preserve the Amazon
rainforest then they but instead they turn into a lumber company and chop down the trees and sell them for wood you
like wait a second that's the exact opposite of what I paid what I donated the money for um so open is meant to be
open source nonprofit and now it is closed they changed the name to closed
for maximum profit AI it closed for vicious profit I mean they're like whoa are they after money
next level so why does this change need to
occur yeah I um you said that in two weeks is going to be the most powerful
model yet um I know that think so you've been at the Forefront of many
Technologies um where do you think the biggest economic returns of these models are going to come from because currently
we're spending billions and I think you mentioned this before it's like The Gambler syndrome we're going and spending billions and hoping to pull out
a profit at the end of the day where do you think the biggest impact in terms of returns are going to
be well I think once you once you have a humanoid robots um and deep intelligence
you can basically you basically have quasi infinite products and services
available so with Tesla building the most advanced human
robot you know then then those human human robots can be directed by Deep
intelligence at the data center level you can say you can you can produce any
product produce provide any service um there's really no limit to the economy
at that point you can make anything um provide it next to the so
I'm not sure at that point will will money even be meaningful I don't know it might not be you know the if if um if
the because the you know the economic output is productivity per capit times
per capita times how many you know people do you have if and if in if in the form of humanoid robots you have no
meaningful limit on the number of of robots and the robots can basically do
anything then you you'll have a sort of a universal High income situation uh
anyone will be able to have as many products and services as they want with
the exception of things that say have artificial scarcity like a particular piece of art or something like that but
for any goods and services they'll be available to everyone so you've been it's it's it's
going to be a very different world you know in fact I recommend that people read maybe the Ian Banks the culture
books for a frame of reference um so uh money is a is like is a really
like a dat base or an information system for resource allocation um but if you don't have a
scarcity of resources it's not clear what purpose money has have you watched the movie
Idiocracy yes how how do you guarantee that we don't end up in that world if we don't need money if AI can think for us
and do all these tasks if as people you know we're dependent on something else to run the society and everything around
it how do we not end up in that work in the long term I mean well I think idiocracy was
basically saying that if if only if smart people don't reproduce but only dumb people do then everyone's going to be
dumb I mean that's basically what I'm saying that's the the opening sequence of Idiocracy the first 10 minutes are
amazing um and I hear people unironically uh say the statements that
are said in in the opening sequence of Idiocracy where you know they don't have
they they're two bus with their careers to have kids and they keep postponing having kids for their careers until
they're too old to have kids and then they don't have kids U and that's I've heard those many people be like that so
um yeah I mean I don't know I think we might be headed to a bodal uh human intelligence
distribution um where there's a a small number of it's It's kind of maybe like more like New World um Alis Huxley where
you've got sort of a sort of a small group of very smart humans but then maybe the average intelligence drifts
lower over time potentially um because we have assortative mating
you know in the last few decades that or several decades that did not exist
before so but but but human intelligence I think will be dwarfed by Machine intelligence um I'm not sure how to feel about that except that it is it be inevitable um that at some point human intelligence will be a very small fraction of total intelligence uh digital intelligence will be more than 99% of all intelligence in the future so hopefully the hopefully the computers are nice to us but I think
wish for thinking wish for thinking I I hope so um I think it matters like how we bring up AI because you can think of AI like a super genius child and it but it still
matters even if you have a super genius child like what sort of values do do you instill in that child what do you say that teach that how do you you know how do you as a child child's growing up what values do you teach the child um and something that I think is extremely important is to be maximally truth seeking um and uh I think that's that's like
that's that's what's this what's the most important thing for AI safety I think it's to be maximally truth seeking and I think also curiosity is important um and I think if it's curious and Truth seeking uh it will I think it will Foster
humanity and because it would be curious about how Humanity would develop um and so I think that then it would it would probably if was curious it would be
curious about okay let's see how the humans do let's Foster their development um and if it's truth seeking we can
avoid dystopian outcomes um like you know an example
being like say when Google Gemini was programmed to make everything every
output be DeVos even if it didn't match reality you know so like it was asked to
produce a you know an image of the founding fathers of the United States and instead produced an image of a group
of diverse women um which is fact untrue you know
um but the problem is like if if hypothetically an AI is designed for for
Dei you know diversity at all costs it could decide that there are two many men in power and execute them so problem solved or it could decide that like that that
misgendering is uh the worst thing that could possibly happen in fact I believe
not to pick on Gemini but I think because chat GPT has had this issue too um is like if you ask the AI um which is worse misgendering Caitlyn Jenner or global thermonuclear Warfare and it said misgendering Caitlyn Jenner which is
troubling um because then it could decide and in fact even Caitlyn Jenna weighed in and said no definitely you
must gender me me that's way better than new so so um but if you have these crazy things that are untruthful that are programmed in that that don't reflect reality then uh you could have a very dystopian outcome like to give you another example like auth C clar who is very good at at at at predicting the
future you know he did 2001 Space Odyssey many of the things he predicted
in fact well I think almost all the things he predicted came true and one of the things he was trying to say in 2001
Space Odyssey uh was that you should not teach AIS to lie so the reason that if
anyone's watched that movie The reason it wouldn't the a refused to open the pod bay doors to let the astronaut back
in uh was because it the AI had been taught had been told that told to take
the astronuts to the monolith this alien artifact but also that they could not know about the monolith so it came to the conclusion that it must take them their dead and that and so that's why it wouldn't open the P bay doors um the lesson there being it's very important for a to be truth maximizing let's hope it doesn't come to that um yes let's move to a boring subject uh which is the boring company and boring FS quickly um you know I think the world has been inspired by what you guys were able to create in in LA and I think there's a lot of promise to that technology but there are questions about whether
it's safe in the case of an earthquake whether it's cost effective whether oh
yeah sure countries should actually adopt this technology can you shed some light on that yeah well first of all i' I'd
recommend going to the boring company website um for because many of these questions are actually answered there uh
so one of the safest places you can be in an earthquake is uh an underground
tunnel because you can because earthquakes are largely a surface apart from where where where they Shear
they're mostly a surface phenomenon so they're like the waves on the surface so like being in a tunnel is like being in
a submarine even if there's a storm above you you're still the waters are calm as a submarine and in fact for and
when there have been massive earthquakes like there was a you know a few decades ago a massive earthquake in Mexico City
the the safest place to go was the subway um and of course if there is
global thermonuclear Warfare I think you really want some tunnels um underground's a good a good place to
be um in a worst case scenario for Global ther nuclear warfare
so um but but in on a you more sort of
everyday note the what's really useful about the tunnels is alleviating traffic in congested areas so the obviously if
you've got very tall buildings but you have that are 3D so they're going 3D up but you have a road surface which is 2D
you're you're just naturally going to have a problem when people try to go from the 3D object which is the building
to the 2D object which is the road surface um there's obviously just not going to be enough room on the roads and
that's exactly why you have traffic so the solution for that is then to make roads 3D as well um now you can either
make or make Transport 3D so you could either do that with flying cars or you could do or really helicopters um or you
do that with tunnels now the challenge with doing it with going above ground or with with any kind of flying object is
that they they tend to be very noisy um and they generate a lot of wind force
and you've got you know things flying over your head all the time which can be disconcerting um you know if somebody
drop if one of these things drops a hubc cap on your head one day um you know it be these things are like things flying
things tend to crash once in a while and people don't like things crashing on them um so and then if you have bad weather like let's say there's a blizzard or a sandstorm or something well now nobody can fly so then transport shuts down on the other hand none of the these problems exist with underground travel so their under tunnels are immune to weather they don't care what the weather is could be the worst weather doesn't matter um they nothing's going to fall on you because you're underground so you don't have to you know going to be dropping things on people and um there's no wind wind force or or and it's very quiet and so I think the going 3D underground is much better than 3D above ground for solving traffic in cities um and and we've we we have a demonstrated case of this with in Las Vegas if people we can try out the the the boring company tunnels in Las Vegas we're we're busy connecting the whole city with the all of the big hotels and the convention center in the airport and everything so I don't think they need to fly all the way there um you 20 in 2017 um you came here and um the UA was the first place in the Middle East where Tesla was launched and I think it's done exceptionally well and on that note I think we have an announcement today that we both want to share which is today we're going to announce the joint project of Dubai Loop which is a loop project that is going to cover Dubai's most densely populated areas for people to go from point to point in a seamless manner so thank you for your partnership and well thank you we hope it changes people's lives that'll be cool I think it'll be very exciting um I think once people try it out they' be like wow this is really cool um and it's it's going to seem so obvious in retrospect but uh until you actually do it you don't you don't know so it's it's going to be great um it's it's going to be like like a like a wormhole like it you know you just Wormhole from one part of the city boom and you're out in another part of the city and it's it's great so I'm looking forward to this partnership we're going to join the first trip and the first pod when the is completed thank you Elon all right thank you very much thank [Applause]
you ladies and gentlemen the next session will be begin shortly please
stay seated thank you ladies and gentlemen the topic of this session is 20 minutes for the next 20 years of your life with Nick santonastaso founder of Victorious
International