Jeremy Irons (Cast for Dad character) is such a badass actor.
The daughter got a big cheekbone like his father.
Nieves, Sklenar, and Schlaepfer
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ravage蹂躏róulìn
"It's a daughter's duty to marry her father's choice !"
"I'm to lie on my back to wait and be ravaged (蹂躏 róulìn) by a beast of your choosing !"
If anyone is wondering, it's called "The Borgias" and it's a series.
[My dad tried to force me into the convent. It wasn’t my calling. I became a nurse. We can’t walk a path that we are not meant to, it just doesn’t work.]
Pope Rodrigo Borgia and his many children lol This was my show ; I was so sad when they cancelled The Borgias. Oh, and for those who don't know, the depiction of Jesus we see in church and on posters is the likeness of Cesare Borgia, one of the popes' sons.
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Her being interested in a man that looks similar to her is so funny.
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@destineyjenkins5100
1 month ago
That's what I thought too
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@CaroleHarrison-r9m
1 month ago
He reminds her of her dad...
@elenilou1851
1 month ago (edited)
This is what usually happens. We choose somebody that looks like the face we see in the mirror every day.
You have zero understanding of why a man chose for his daughter back then, because men have worked hard and are still working hard to make it easy enough for a woman to live alone. If your husband couldn't support you back then, you would die, and so would your children. As I watch women choose loser after loser and then blame all men, I think we should go back to this system.
Although there were Hollywood living legends in this series, it also put extraordinarily talented actors on the map. Especially Nieves, Sklenar, and Schlaepfer given how the writing for their characters was particularly challenging.
ChatGPT said:
It seems there's some confusion regarding the cast members Nieves, Sklenar, and Schlaepfer in relation to The Borgias. These actors are not part of The Borgias series. They are known for their roles in the series 1923, a prequel to Yellowstone.?Sportskeeda+2Radio Times+2TV Insider+2
In 1923, Brandon Sklenar portrays Spencer Dutton, Julia Schlaepfer plays Alexandra, and Aminah Nieves takes on the role of Teonna Rainwater .?YouTube+4Radio Times+4Sportskeeda+4
As for The Borgias, it is a historical drama series that aired from 2011 to 2013, focusing on the infamous Borgia family's rise to power in Renaissance Italy. The series stars Jeremy Irons as Rodrigo Borgia, who becomes Pope Alexander VI, with François Arnaud as Cesare Borgia and Holliday Grainger as Lucrezia Borgia .?Apple+5Rotten Tomatoes+5Vogue+5The Borgias Wiki+11Wikipedia+11Wikipédia, a enciclopédia livre+11
If you're interested in more details about either series or their cast members, feel free to ask!
Sources
You said:
yes
ChatGPT said:
Great! Here’s a breakdown of both series and the cast mentioned, to clear things up and give you the full picture:
???? 1. The Borgias (2011–2013, Showtime)
Genre: Historical Drama | Setting: Renaissance Italy Storyline:
This lush, gripping series follows the rise of Rodrigo Borgia, a cunning Spanish cardinal who schemes his way to the papacy as Pope Alexander VI. Once in power, he uses bribery, strategic marriages, and deadly alliances to establish a dynasty. His children—Cesare, the ruthless strategist; Lucrezia, intelligent and charming but caught in political webs; and Juan, the reckless son—are drawn into the dark world of papal politics, war, and betrayal.
Main Cast:
Jeremy Irons – Rodrigo Borgia / Pope Alexander VI
François Arnaud – Cesare Borgia
Holliday Grainger – Lucrezia Borgia
David Oakes – Juan Borgia
Colm Feore – Cardinal Giuliano della Rovere
Lotte Verbeek – Giulia Farnese
Themes: Power, corruption, forbidden love, religious hypocrisy, political maneuvering
Status: Cancelled after 3 seasons, leaving fans longing for a proper ending.
???? 2. 1923 (2022–present, Paramount+)
Genre: Western Drama | Setting: Early 20th-century Montana Storyline:
A prequel to Yellowstone, 1923 explores the Dutton family’s legacy of land, loss, and resilience during a time of Prohibition, the Great Depression, and westward expansion. It blends love, war, and survival against a rugged frontier backdrop.
Main Cast:
Harrison Ford – Jacob Dutton
Helen Mirren – Cara Dutton
Brandon Sklenar – Spencer Dutton (a war-scarred adventurer who finds love and healing in Africa)
Julia Schlaepfer – Alexandra (Spencer’s brave and rebellious British love interest)
Aminah Nieves – Teonna Rainwater (a Native American girl escaping the cruelty of a Catholic boarding school)
Themes: Colonialism, survival, family legacy, trauma, love under fire
???? Why the Confusion?
Jeremy Irons is not in 1923, but his commanding presence as the Borgia patriarch in The Borgias left a huge impact.
Nieves, Sklenar, and Schlaepfer are rising stars in 1923, a completely different show, but their raw, emotional performances resonate with the same intensity.
The dialogue snippets you quoted (“It’s a daughter’s duty to marry her father’s choice,” etc.) echo the patriarchal themes found in The Borgias, but they’re not from 1923 or spoken by Jeremy Irons—rather, they’re dramatic reflections viewers often project across series.
Would you like a side-by-side comparison of the female leads from both shows, or a deeper dive into Lucrezia Borgia’s controversial portrayal in TV vs. history?
You said:
yes
ChatGPT said:
Fantastic! Here's a side-by-side comparison of the female leads from The Borgias and 1923, highlighting their roles, character arcs, themes, and historical/cultural relevance.
???? Lucrezia Borgia (The Borgias)
Portrayed by: Holliday Grainger Time period: Late 15th to early 16th century (Renaissance Italy) Status: Historical figure Background:
Daughter of Rodrigo Borgia (Pope Alexander VI), Lucrezia is born into a corrupt, power-hungry papal family. Historically demonized and romanticized in equal measure, she was often a political pawn in her father and brothers’ machinations—used in arranged marriages to secure alliances.
Character Arc:
Starts as a sweet, sheltered young woman.
Faces abuse, betrayal, and manipulation (including from her own family).
Grows into a sharp, emotionally complex strategist.
Blurs lines between innocence and ambition.
Key Themes:
Female agency under patriarchy
Taboo love (hints of incestuous bonds with Cesare)
Loss of innocence vs. survival through intelligence
The haunting beauty and danger of power
Why She Resonates:
Lucrezia is iconic because she embodies the tension between victimhood and cunning. Viewers connect with her pain and admire her evolution. Her soft power and quiet rebellion within a violent, male-dominated world leave a lasting impression.
???? Teonna Rainwater (1923)
Portrayed by: Aminah Nieves Time period: Early 20th century (Montana / American West) Status: Fictional character, but rooted in real Indigenous history Background:
Teonna is a Native American girl forced into a brutal Catholic boarding school, where children are stripped of their language, identity, and dignity—reflecting a real and painful part of American history.
Character Arc:
Begins as a quiet student trying to survive
Suffers torture and cultural erasure at the hands of nuns
Fights back with raw, physical courage and escapes
Becomes a fugitive, hunted yet spiritually defiant
Key Themes:
Colonization and systemic oppression
Cultural survival and Indigenous resilience
Violence and retribution
Finding identity beyond institutional control
Why She Resonates:
Teonna’s story is deeply emotional because it’s personal and historical. Nieves’ performance is visceral; her trauma is not dramatized—it’s remembered. She carries the grief of generations but never loses her will to live on her own terms.
???? Side-by-Side Snapshot
Attribute
Lucrezia Borgia (The Borgias)
Teonna Rainwater (1923)
Portrayed by
Holliday Grainger
Aminah Nieves
Historical Context
Papal Rome, Renaissance Italy
1920s Montana, U.S. Indigenous history
Power Source
Political marriages, beauty, subtle wit
Defiance, inner strength, cultural roots
Central Conflict
Patriarchy, arranged marriage, forbidden love
Genocide by assimilation, survival
Emotional Vibe
Haunting, poetic, morally ambiguous
Raw, righteous, painful and powerful
Viewer Impact
Tragic seduction and court intrigue
Anger, empathy, and cultural awareness
If you're drawn to stories of women caught between tradition and autonomy—both of these characters deliver unforgettable journeys. One navigates the poisoned elegance of the Vatican; the other survives the brutality of “civilizing” violence in early America.
Would you like a recommendation for similar shows with strong female leads in historical or frontier settings?
You said:
interest to say "Blurs lines between innocence and ambition." entail your point
ChatGPT said:
Absolutely—“blurs lines between innocence and ambition” is a powerful way to capture the complexity of Lucrezia Borgia (and characters like her), especially in The Borgias.
Let’s unpack what that means in context:
???? Innocence and Ambition: Not Opposites, but Entwined
At the start of The Borgias, Lucrezia is portrayed as:
Gentle, warm-hearted, a “good daughter”
Protective of her family, yet yearning for affection and freedom
Almost naive—an object of pity or purity in a ruthless world
But as the series progresses, and after being used as a political pawn in arranged marriages, she transforms:
She begins to understand power—how it's wielded, traded, hidden.
She stops asking for permission and starts strategizing quietly.
She manipulates, lies, and sometimes kills—not for greed, but survival and love.
???? So what does “blurring the lines” look like?
She might smile like a child but order a poisoning like a queen.
She still grieves, still feels—but learns that being good doesn’t protect you.
Her ambition is not cold; it’s born from pain, betrayal, and a need to protect those she cares about—even if it means blood on her hands.
This ambiguity is why Lucrezia is compelling:
Is she a victim of power, or its secret master?
Is her love pure, or weaponized?
Is she innocent? Or has she simply learned to survive in an unjust world?
???? The Takeaway:
To say someone "blurs the lines between innocence and ambition" means:
They have the soul of someone who once trusted the world—and the mind of someone who no longer does.
And Lucrezia lives in that tension. That’s what makes her unforgettable.
Would you like me to find other characters in TV or literature who have that same blurred duality?
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