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“北美清教徒屠杀了几千万印地安人”?

(2007-07-01 07:22:03) 下一个
事实证明,人相信他们愿意相信的。

历史记录在这里:
来源: liangmin6  回答: “北美清教徒屠杀了几千万印地安人”?

According to some history books, there were 50-100 million (see ref 1) (some says 25m to 50m) American Indians around 1500. There were 2000 distinct cultures back then. Some of the indians died from the deadly disease brough by white European, some of them killed by puritans.By 1900, statistics says there were only 220K indian left.So how many were killed by the Puritans?(1) American History, by Kenneth Davis. P9.

http://web.wenxuecity.com/BBSView.php?SubID=religion&MsgID=441642


1)首先,没有这么一本书叫《American History》,by Kenneth Davis.
只有一本书叫《Don't Know Much About American History》,by Kenneth Davis.

Amazon的记录如下:

Don't Know Much About American History (Davis, Kenneth C. Don't Know Much.) [AUDIOBOOK] [UNABRIDGED] (Audio Cassette) by Kenneth C. Davis (Author), Oliver Wyman (Narrator), Jonathan Davis (Narrator), John Beach (Narrator), Sarah Hayon (Narrator)
http://www.amazon.com/About-American-History-Davis-Kenneth/dp/0807216259

前面一本(《American History》),像是历史学著作。
后面一本(《Don't Know Much About American History》),像是普及读本。

然也。那书是普及读本。不是历史教材。

下面一个读者评论这么说:

The Kiddie Version, January 3, 2006
By
Rebecca Rae - See all my reviewsWell this book is fine if you want the 8th grade version of US history. Of course, I myself doubt the accuracy of the book. If you look on page 141 you'll find a lovely picture of "Stalin" which tells you the man in the center of the photo is Stalin. I nearly died laughing because any idiot could see that the man in the bright white outfit standing in the center was not Stalin. Stalin is actually standing two men away to his right. I wonder if in fact this was done on purpose, so that a person just glancing at the image would simply view Stalin as this strong dictator that we must fear, instead of the rather weak person he looks like in the photo (not that Stalin was weak of course...) Bottom line: I don't trust the book. It's a whole lot of propaganda and bias. But if you can read it with that in mind, it works fine as a referrence to dates and whatnot.

2)此人有历史研究的信誉吗?

在他自己的主页上写着“Having coasted through high school and never finished college”。
http://www.dontknowmuch.com/index.php/about/about_the_series/#title

不是说资格需要文凭,而是此人有没有从事认真的历史研究的信誉。根据历史研究成果或者道听途说,写有趣的历史题材的故事,不能作为历史研究的资历。三国演义是历史题材,但那不是历史著作。很明显罗贯中对历史并不是门外汉,但他不是历史研究的学者。对三国史实,从罗贯中那里搞答案,是不负责任的。

3)美洲还是美国?

就引用wiki的数字好了:“20th century scholarly estimates ranged from a low of 8.4 million to a high of 112.5 million persons. ” “In 1976, geographer William Denevan used these various estimates to derive a "consensus count" of about 54 million people, although some recent estimates are lower than that.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples#Population_overview

这里说的是整个美洲,整个西半球,因为同一个词条,就说了大量的拉美的例子,包括巴西印第安人口,加勒比,印加。

清教徒最初来到北美,登录美国东海岸。他们没有移民拉美,所以美国讲英语,而拉美讲西班牙语或葡萄牙语。去拉美的,是西班牙人和葡萄牙人。西班牙人和葡萄牙人,不是清教徒,不是Puritans。

把整个美洲人口,算到美国,是荒唐的。

美国现在的人口,才到300 million。500年前的美国这片土地上的印第安人,很多部落不从事定居农耕的印第安人,人口达到“50-100 million”?人要疯狂到一定程度才会相信。

4)算数。

我们就用100 million这个天文数字。

根据你给普及读本的公式,当时100 million,现在几十万,疾病死亡70-80%,那么就是20-30 million被清教徒杀死了。

这种分析结果能成立,需要几个条件:

a)1500年那100 million印第安人,如果没死,都活到了今天。换句话说,今天美国的几十万印第安人,都有500岁以上。不然你不能那么作减法。

b)除了欧洲人和非洲人带来的传染病,美国当时没有任何可能导致人类死亡的自然灾害,比如干旱,洪水,蝗灾。。。

c)除了欧洲人和非洲人带来的传染病,美国当时没有任何本地传染性疾病造成的大规模人口丧失,比如鼠疫。

d)除了欧洲人和非洲人带来的传染病,美国印第安人不会被任何疾病打倒,比如癌症,肺炎。

e)除了欧洲人和非洲人带来的传染病,美国印第安人没有经历任何可能导致大规模人口死亡的人祸,比如大跃进式的饥荒,盖劳民伤财的金字塔。。。

f)除了欧洲人和非洲人带来的传染病,美国印第安人之间没有发生任何导致人口死亡的战争。
但是很遗憾,印第安人各个tribes之间战争频繁,Apche部落就被认为好斗善战,而 Illini 和 Winnibego 的连年征战,导致Winnibego 部落杀到最后只剩了五百人。

那种得出“北美清教徒屠杀了几千万印地安人”的运算,缺乏依据,缺乏基本的common sense。相信这种insane数字的牛二,是在用实际行动证明自己缺乏理性思考能力,缺乏怀疑精神。

5)欧洲人来到美洲之前,印第安人在干什么?

这是个被普遍忽视的问题。
Aztec人是普遍搞罪恶的活人献祭的,还是用牛二们乐意接受的wiki的数字,很低的估计是每年2万,杀死,用于祭祀。
高的数字是每年25万。
可以说,那鬼地方不是田园牧歌,而是阴风惨惨。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice_in_Aztec_culture#Estimates_of_the_scope_of_the_sacrifices

人有足够的智慧鉴别煽动仇恨的谣言吗?我相信,心地纯良的话,寻求真相的话,长线不会一直受骗。
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