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美国政府必须让花旗银行和 AIG 等倒闭了事!

(2009-03-10 01:23:15) 下一个


花旗银行,BOA,还有 AIG 等公司现在是负债累累,实际上它们已经是行尸走肉的家伙了。为了救 AIG,本月初美国政府再次给AIG追加300亿美元,这使得AIG得到政府的援助已达1800亿美元,但到现在还看不到头呢。花旗银行也一样,百足之虫,早已死而僵了。现在美国政府也已拥有了36%的花旗股份。

可是美国政府还准备继续用纳税人的大笔银子去挽救它们。

为什么不能再用纳税人的钱救这些银行家的理由有三点:

第一,不道德

先说说这些银行负的是些什么债吧。如果您还没有听说过 CDS,那么点这里请参阅我的文章《【华尔街信贷危机】我们是怎样走到这一步的(下)》(请点前面连接阅读)。具体的说,CDS 都是赌债。比如某基金买了李曼兄弟发行的 Mortgage-Backed Securities (MBS,属债卷) 一个 Billion。他又到 AIG 处买了 CDS 作保险。如今 MBS 违约了,AIG 向它支付 1B 的赔偿金,AIG 收进这些 MBS。可是,还有很多对冲基金根本就没买 MBS,也去向 AIG 投保李曼兄弟的 CDS,那么它们也会从 AIG 处得到 1B 的赔偿金!

这些都是金融家的毫赌,赢了的将放进他们自己的腰包,输了的却要我们纳税人来支付赔偿,这是非常不道德的。

第二,不安全

你们知道这场豪赌有多大吗?据统计,全球总共有 5 万亿的债卷,可是 CDS (赌债) 却有 50 万亿 (50 Trillion)! 美国联邦政府全年的财政预算好象也只有两三个 Trillion 美金,这笔 50 T 的钱大到全世界的政府合起来也赔不出的 (当然并不是所有的都要赔偿)。

这么多的钱即使赔得出来,但落到私人手里也是极不安全的。全世界恐怕马上就会出现财产,土地和资源的掠夺战。因为钱总是要有去处的!

如果让花旗银行,AIG 甚至 BOA,该破的就破,那就用他们自己的资产去偿还赌债,如果银行有 1B 的资产,却欠了 10B 的赌债,那么就一块还十块。这样损失就小很多,也符合资本主义的企业精神。而且流入不明去处的钱也小很多,这样世界会更安全些。

第三,不经济

政府将大把银子投入到花旗银行,BOA 和 AIG 的金融巨头。结果钱都掉入私人口袋,与国民经济一点好处都没有,反而增加了不安全感。

但如果政府放弃这些巨头,将银子投入到尚属健康的银行手里 (如富国银行,笔者听说卷入不深,但不知道真假),由他们拿这笔钱使用到经济循环中,刺激生产,刺激消费,发放贷款等,国民经济这样才会逐渐活络起来。

对于让花旗和 AIG 等破产,有人可能会担心去年美国政府让李曼兄弟破产,结果引发华尔街信贷危机 (Credit crunch),结果差点将美国经济毁了 。其实,李曼破产的时候,就象是中国改革开放的早年“物价闯关”时一样,人们的心理都没有准备,以致酿成很大的政治风波和金融海啸。但是现在如果让 AIG 和花旗银行破产,人们的思想准备已经有了,而且也多多少少地准备了些。这就象是九十年代大批国营企业职工下岗一样,人们的承受能力已经普遍提高了,因此不会再酿成 "金融海啸"。


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金笔 回复 悄悄话 回复武胜的评论:
也非常感谢您的进一步澄清和补充。二位让我们吃了点“定心丸”,再感谢!
金笔 回复 悄悄话 回复ubcdavid的评论:
非常感谢您的进一步澄清和补充。
武胜 回复 悄悄话 回复金笔的评论:
AIG的CDS数额迄今没有透露,金融产品估值本身有难度,还取决于未来经济的走势.如果经济不断恶化,谁都挺不住.如果象伯南克说的年内衰退结束,那么金融业就有望好转.除了这些金融涎生产品,其它正常业务还是赚钱的.国家的作用是不让最坏情况一下子发生,不应该是直接去补大漏洞.CDS只有在一个相当长的时期里慢慢消化.一下子"剥离"有毒资产统统让国家来承担,这是华尔街的如意算盘.
ubcdavid 回复 悄悄话 回复武胜的评论:
这是贷款保险中心的习惯做法,他们一般不让问题银行法律上破产,而是为问题银行找个买家,保障中心为交易提供一些资金和担保。因为银行法律上破产,很多坏帐就会需要立即计提和清零资产,假如不破产就留了处理的余地。Wamu倒了,客户变成Chase的,就是这样的。
ubcdavid 回复 悄悄话 回复金笔的评论:
在经济学上有一个默认的假设,一个国家不会出现内债破产的,因为一个国家总有权利发行本币,所以不过需要的成本印钞吧了。但一个国家会出现外币破产。

银行的复杂性在于各部门的关联。AIG的人寿部分,飞机金融赚了钱,赚的钱现在都让CDS部门亏掉了,所以AIG进可能不卖赚钱的部门,因为需要现金流维持生存。

最近,美国的银行又开始盈利了,其中一个原因是现在CDO,CDS等不再 Mark-to-market了。
金笔 回复 悄悄话 回复武胜的评论:
所以我说 AIG 的人寿保险业务是赚钱的,也是可以出卖并用来还债权人的债的啦。。。。如果 AIG 破的话。。。。

“储蓄和人寿保险属于良性业务,除非发生挤兑或大量理赔,不会有风险到需要保障中心来处理. Wamu倒了,客户变成Chase的,这没有问题. 问题在于这两家坏帐规模太大,就是你说的"大爷",上家承受不起清零的后果. 国家怕连锁反应倒一大批,只好出面干预.
金笔 回复 悄悄话 武胜兄和 ubcdavid,希望您们二位谈谈, CDS 上估计总共有 50 Trillion 的赌债,如果破产房 (据估计还有五百万或几百万“问题屋”要破) 持续增加的话,那么 AIG 需要赔偿的窟窿会不会大到连美国政府都顶不住呢?
金笔 回复 悄悄话 回复ubcdavid的评论:
这句话,我是同意的,呵呵。度过金融或经济危机的最好方法,就是手里头有大量的现金。。。。:)))

"所以,借钱一定要尽可能多借,当大爷"
武胜 回复 悄悄话 回复ubcdavid的评论:
储蓄和人寿保险属于良性业务,除非发生挤兑或大量理赔,不会有风险到需要保障中心来处理. Wamu倒了,客户变成Chase的,这没有问题. 问题在于这两家坏帐规模太大,就是你说的"大爷",上家承受不起清零的后果. 国家怕连锁反应倒一大批,只好出面干预.
ubcdavid 回复 悄悄话 所以,借钱一定要尽可能多借,当大爷
ubcdavid 回复 悄悄话 回复ubcdavid的评论:
补充一句,现在全球最高银行风险的国家是美国和中国。美国大家都看到了。中国的问题在于,中国的银行手中存有很多四大资产管理公司发的债券,这些债券的估值是假的。同时,中国的四大银行很多帐是有问题的,道理就如上面提到的大爷一样,一天大爷在,银行可以继续给大爷借钱填旧债,并且账面上还可以做到有盈利的。

大约三年后,中国将会出现人民币的急剧贬值的可能性。
ubcdavid 回复 悄悄话 回复金笔的评论:
我是学经济的。我给您说说为什么Citi和AIG不能到。为了方便,我现假定您买了一份AIG的人寿保险和存了五万美元到了Citi.根据美国的银行和保险法律,AIG和Citi需要把一部分的保险费和存款(0.5%-1%)交到保险保障中心和存款保证中心。这两间中心都是美国政府机构。这两间保证中心保证保险用户和存款用户不受保险机构和银行倒闭的影响。即使您可以在Citi倒闭后仍能取出五万元,您的保险也有效。如果Citi和AIG现在倒闭了,您应该可以知道这两间中心需要拿出非常大的钱去给储户和保险人(这两间中心的资产加起来应不到一千亿美元,数据代考证)。这些钱最终只能由美国政府即纳税人负担。所以,Citi和AIG破产会导致美国政府背上一笔巨大的债务,接近AIG和Citi资产总和。即美国政府的债务由现在的隐性担保变为直接账面担保。
同时,这两间中心根本不具有充足的人力去接管保险单和存款的管理。美国也找不到可以接手管理的银行。
并且,银行破产涉及巨大的人力和物力,如信托人,会计师,律师的费用。这些最终的费用支出会转嫁到两间保证中心,即美国政府头上。
另一个问题是,假如AIG和Citi破产,跟这两个家伙有联系的银行就需要计提坏帐,关联的很多小银行就可能破产,那两间保证中心就需要赔更多的钱。整个美国的储蓄系统就会倒毁。
所以,从纳税人损失最少的角度看,美国肯定会出手的。

雷曼的性质跟Citi和AIG不一样,他没有存款和个人保险业务需要两间保证中心担保,同时雷曼有很多外国的投资者,所以美国政府当时就没想过出手。

这样,您可能明白了一句名言,当某人借了银行十亿元,银行一定保证他活下去。他要求天天鲍鱼也没问题的。因为只要他一天在,他欠银行的帐只叫坏帐,不必清零。假如他不在,那就要清零,那叫亏损。现在那大爷叫Citi和AIG.
武胜 回复 悄悄话 这两家不能破产的理由是他们绑架了美国经济,其规模是李曼他们不能比的。简单地让他们破产,他们的债务就会拖垮一大批其它机构造成连锁反应,他们本来的良性业务这一面如实业投资、储蓄等等也会受到不确定因素的影响。

少数企业绑架经济的原因是垄断。没有垄断企业,这种情况就不会发生。所以有些拆解超大型企业的建议值得考虑,而且不应该是糟到没有办法的时候才拆解。美国现有的反垄断法原则在于防止一家独大,几家垄断就不是垄断,这是很可笑的。现实正在惩罚垄断的经济。

Wiserman 回复 悄悄话
I AGREE WITH "hzgg"的评论,
还有,你把美国政府当成正义性之神?
你太理想化了! 白日梦!
金笔 回复 悄悄话 回复ubcdavid的评论:
应该说任何公司都是可以破的,为啥 AIG 不能破呢?

当然,AIG 要破产也不能就这样一下垮的。这是由破产法庭的法官主持,先给AIG赚钱的部门找买主,订一个价钱,这时政府可以介入贴钱给买主,当然尽量买个好价。卖出去以后,所有人的人寿保险当然是不变的,不应该受影响。这个卖出去的钱当然是要还到 AIG 里面去,但它是用来赔偿 AIG 的债权人的,比如 AIG 欠 500 Billion,而人寿保险卖了50 Billion,那么十块就给一块了。

当然,我不是学经济,或许我的想法还太单纯了点。。。。
ubcdavid 回复 悄悄话 No one really knows the actual volume of the CDS because CDS is over the counter transaction. Meanwhile, the nominal account of the CDS is not really the value of the CDS. US government will save Citi and AIG because most US residents have insurances in AIG and investment in Citi. If Citi and AIG bankrupt, most US residents will lost their wealth and at the end, it is the government who has to bear all the insurance contracts. So AIG and Citi will not crunch, just have the possibility to become government owned.
金笔 回复 悄悄话 AIG 将联邦救助它的 170 Billion 中的千分之一,165 Million,作为“红包”私下分给它们的高管。

这当中还包括几位涉及 CDS 等债卷保险部门的主管,因为这几位主管的作为使得 AIG 处于破产的边缘,可是他们几个竟然每人还拿到 3 Million EACH!而联邦政府也只是装出“气愤”的样子,骂几句了事了。这都是我们纳税人的钱!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090316/ap_on_go_pr_wh/aig_outrage

Millions in AIG bonuses draw chorus of outrage
43 mins ago
WASHINGTON 8211; Leaders of the White House economic team and the Senate's top Republican bellowed about bonuses at a bailed-out insurance giant and pledged to prevent such payments in the future.

From one Sunday talk show to the next, they tore into the contracts that American International Group asserted had to be honored, to the tune of about $165 million and payable to executives by Sunday — part of a larger total payout reportedly valued at $450 million. The company has benefited from more than $170 billion in a federal rescue.

AIG has agreed to Obama administration requests to restrain future payments. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner pressed the president's case with AIG's chairman, Edward Liddy, last week.

"He stepped in and berated them, got them to reduce the bonuses following every legal means he has to do this," said Austan Goolsbee, staff director of President Barack Obama's Economic Recovery Advisory Board.

"I don't know why they would follow a policy that's really not sensible, is obviously going to ignite the ire of millions of people, and we've done exactly what we can do to prevent this kind of thing from happening again," Goolsbee said.

Added Lawrence Summers, Obama's top economic adviser: "The easy thing would be to just say ... off with their heads, violate the contracts. But you have to think about the consequences of breaking contracts for the overall system of law, for the overall financial system."

Summers said Geithner used all his power, "both legal and moral, to reduce the level of these bonus payments."

The Democratic administration's argument about the sanctity of contracts was more than Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky could bear.

"For them to simply sit there and blame it on the previous administration or claim contract — we all know that contracts are valid in this country, but they need to be looked at," McConnell said. "Did they enter into these contracts knowing full well that, as a practical matter, the taxpayers of the United States were going to be reimbursing their employees? Particularly employees who got them into this mess in the first place? I think it's an outrage."

In an interview that aired Sunday on CBS' "60 Minutes," Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke did not address the bonuses but expressed his frustration with the AIG intervention.

"It makes me angry. I slammed the phone more than a few times on discussing AIG," Bernanke said. "It's — it's just absolutely — I understand why the American people are angry. It's absolutely unfair that taxpayer dollars are going to prop up a company that made these terrible bets — that was operating out of the sight of regulators, but which we have no choice but to stabilize, or else risk enormous impact, not just in the financial system, but on the whole U.S. economy."

AIG reported this month that it had lost $61.7 billion for the fourth quarter of last year, the largest corporate loss in history.

In a letter to Geithner dated Saturday, Liddy said outside lawyers had informed the company that AIG had contractual obligations to make the bonus payments and could face lawsuits if it did not do so.

Liddy said in his letter that "quite frankly, AIG's hands are tied," although he said that in light of the company's current situation he found it "distasteful and difficult" to recommend going forward with the payments.

Liddy said the company had entered into the bonus agreements in early 2008 before AIG got into severe financial straits and was forced to obtain a government bailout last fall.

The bulk of the payments at issue cover AIG Financial Products, the unit of the company that sold credit default swaps, the risky contracts that caused massive losses for the insurer.

Goolsbee acknowledged the AIG example could make it harder to sell the administration's financial plan to Congress.

"Yes, you worry about that backlash. But you're also angry that this would happen at an institution that has been so troubled and you're trying to save. So I think that's perfectly fair," he said.

Goolsbee appeared on "Fox News Sunday," and Summers was on CBS' "Face the Nation" and ABC's "This Week," where McConnell also was interviewed.
smileymoon 回复 悄悄话 Don't know much about Citi, but AIG has over 400 subsidaries. Most of them are healthy and making money. The only bad sector is the one that is related to the sub-prime crisis. That's why AIG is being divided into 4 companies now, as an effort to save the divisions that ARE running well and making a profit.

There is nothing wrong to vent or complain in your own blog. But, I would say, since your blog is public facing, you should at least do some homework and understand the topic you're writing about a bit better. No one knows everything, so maybe you could try to be a little be more humble?
咕咚来了快跑吧 回复 悄悄话 回复hzgg的评论:
可否请您给我讲解一下为什么让花旗银行和 AIG 等倒闭是STUPID的啊?我的美国朋友炒股票的说有可能倒闭啊。我不懂FINANCE,所以想要请教一下。
无忌哥哥 回复 悄悄话 所以说西方的民主制度是合法腐败,对普通民众大概也就能抱怨一下。
mayl 回复 悄悄话 Blog is a wonderful thing. It let people express their views, even though most of these views are "too simple and sometimes naive".

Seriously, the idea of letting AIG or Citi go bankrupt is plainly stupid. That's why the US government is spending silly money to keep them alive.
金笔 回复 悄悄话 回复hzgg的评论:
BOA, Citi Group, AIG 拿了我们纳税人那么多钱,难道喊两声,骂两句,发泄发泄都不行吗?如果它们真的好,为什么一些参议员会发声也让它们破产呢?再说了,靠政府救助也不符合资本主义精神啊?!
hzgg 回复 悄悄话 You are very nonsense and arbitrary, lack of basic financial knowledge and understanding.

Please don't mislead anybody here who is not in the financial field. You have no ideas about citi group and BOA. Their cash flow is healthy and their market value are not as down as shown on the financial reports.

The problem is the financial regulation made by the regulators. Hopefully they start to wake up.

I hate people like you here, Bu Dong Zhuang Dong. Don't copy anything by googling and try to impress readers here. At least, show your integrity.
viewer 回复 悄悄话 哪儿也不到的桥
http://biaochiwang.com/blog/archives/335
By 鲁克

如果谈到联邦政府的拨款,美国人脑子里一定会浮现这几个糟糕的词语,Earmark ,Pork-barrel ,Pet project,Big Dig以及去年竞选时Palin 常提到的Bridge to nowhere。

爱好英文的朋友这时候一定很感兴趣,那么我们今天就先谈谈Bridge to nowhere。Bridge to nowhere字面的意思是“哪儿也不到的桥”。奇怪了,真存在一座哪里也不到的桥?其实这还有一段故事,在阿拉斯加州,有一座孤岛名字叫 Gravina,岛上住了五十几人,他们进出都得依靠渡轮,特别是往返Ketchikan(阿拉斯加州的一个地区)机场。于是他们盼望能有一座桥,这样开车可以很方便的来回,不过预算下来这座桥将耗资3.98亿美元。这样一笔巨额开支,他们当然不会自己出,于是想到了政府。不过用联邦财政花4个亿来帮助五十几个人实现通车方便,在旁人眼里这确实有点不靠谱。但当时还真有几位“热心”的议员积极地向国会争取这项工程的拨款,架这座桥贵虽然贵点,但反正不是自己掏钱,也就无所谓了。不知道大家心算能力怎样,如果旁边有计算器的话,最好按按除法运算,联邦财政在这项工程上的耗费,相当于给了岛上每个居民多少钱?我想用这些钱给他们每家买辆小游艇或者配置一架小飞机应该没什么问题。后来在2007年9月,Palin州长废弃了这项工程。这座Gravina桥,就是所谓的Bridge to nowhere,大家现在应该清楚了什么是Bridge to nowhere。

这种类型的专项拨款,说白了就是浪费公款。现在奥巴马执政,他说要开始大规模建设项目,他在Recovery.gov 网站公布了2009年度的《美国复苏与再投资法案》的草案。他预算光在基础建设和科学上的开支就要达到1110亿(专家认为其中约有600-700亿用于基础建设),在这些预算里还真不知道有多少个Bridge to nowhere,而且他给出的只是一个蓝本,民众还无法知道“Where is My Money Going?”,更别说是他所谓的负责和透明了。单说基础建设,奥巴马说要用80亿在全国范围的开始高速铁路建设。稍微有点常识的人都知道欧洲都快建成了高速铁路网,其高速铁路线绝对是不少的,可是欧洲人乘坐高速铁路人并不多,平均每年每人乘高速铁路约100哩(miles),相比高速公路,其利用率是每年每人50000哩,我们可以看出所谓的高速铁路网利用价值并不大。高速列车票价昂贵很少人去乘,再加上运营维护的成本,结果这种投资造成得不偿失。奥巴马所谓的高速铁路同样也会是一个Bridge to nowhere,是在大规模浪费纳税人的钱而已。

政府在桥梁道路的建设方面的开支,不能只为了所谓“创造就业”,私营的投资通常要考虑回报,原则上按成本效益上分析。而为了建设而建设的政府开支往往会忽略其开支投入后对社会产生的价值回报,如果这种建设对多数人无益,那么所谓“创造内需”的吹嘘只能是徒有虚名罢了。倘若政府这项基础设施建设确实能够起到促进桥两头的人们快速通畅,人们通过这座桥,往来两地增加了彼此生意的机会,提高了效率,因此产生了一些新兴的工作,这当然对于地方长期发展是有利的。但是如果只是单纯的找一帮失业的人来架桥铺路以解决他们的个人失业的问题,那么这座桥无疑就是Bridge to nowhere。
金笔 回复 悄悄话 回复Tianyie的评论:
Pls google with: CDS Market and trillion......
Tianyie 回复 悄悄话 Are you really sure the CDS is 50 tr? where do you got this information. IT is too important to know. If that is true, MKT will go down to 2800
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