中国人蔵在心底里的最大羞愧 2: 中国人不探险,怕到了天边会掉下去。
please also read 中国人蔵在心底里的最大羞愧 1
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大家好, 先请大家看段 history channel 的历史片: 郑 和 (http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_47147e9e01000bxo.html)
解说:
公元1406年1月,军旗猎猎,号角齐鸣,庞大的舰队满载着28000名将士及大量金银、瓷器、铁器、铜器、布匹、谷物和珍宝,正式起锚,在皇帝的注视下和当地民众的狂欢中出发,在强大的东北信风的推动下,开始了向东南亚、印度、非洲和中东的远征。
那时的中国人认为大地是方的,而天空则像一个半球形的盖子罩住了大地。像所有的中国人一样,郑和接受了传统的“天圆地方”学说。但这个学说并没有具体描述大地与海洋的起点和终点。在皇帝的支持下,郑和坚持要走向大地和天空的尽头。但他并不知道,在波涛汹涌的海平线后面究竟隐藏着什么?是黑暗而巨大的深渊,还是一片从天上弧形下垂的硬壳?船员们甚至怀疑走到天边会不会掉下去?
在 中国人蔵在心底里的最大羞愧 1 里, 我们谈到希腊人早在公元前几百年就把地球周长测量计算出来了, 好奇者禁不住会问: 胆大包天,他们就不怕地球底下的人掉下去?
拜读了Aristotle (384 – 322 BC)的巨著 Physics 后, 我不禁感叹万千。 可谓天壤之别啊!感叹的不仅是其观点, (是人都能想像,都有观点),而是人家的严谨的推理,大量的分析和讨论,全书10万来字。拜读他的 Physics 时,不禁想起 Euclid(300 BC) 的几何(Elements) 我们至今还在学, 估计将来永远都要学。
Greek 为啥不怕走到天边会掉下去呢? Aristotle 认为地球上的一切均由4 种要素(element)组成: 地,水,气, 火。 并提出了 ‘place’ 这一概念。 每一要素有其 ‘place’。 地的 ‘place’ 最近地球中心,水在地之上,气在水之上,火在气之上。 ‘上’ 为离开地心之方向, ‘下’ 为冲地心也。地底下的人是往地心上掉的, 是上来, 非掉 ‘下去’ 也。
Aristotle 的 ‘place’ 概念为后来的 gravity 奠定了基础。下文是 Aristotle 对 ‘上’ 和 ‘下’ 的理解:
Further, the typical locomotions of the elementary natural bodies-namely, fire, earth, and the like-show not only that place is something, but also that it exerts a certain influence. Each is carried to its own place, if it is not hindered, the one up, the other down. Now these are regions or kinds of place-up and down and the rest of the six directions. Nor do such distinctions (up and down and right and left, &c.) hold only in relation to us. To us they are not always the same but change with the direction in which we are turned: that is why the same thing may be both right and left, up and down, before and behind. But in nature each is distinct, taken apart by itself. It is not every chance direction which is 'up', but where fire and what is light are carried; similarly, too, 'down' is not any chance direction but where what has weight and what is made of earth are carried-the implication being that these places do not differ merely in relative position, but also as possessing distinct potencies.
想拜读全书者, 请看:http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/physics.4.iv.html
这些 Greek,怎么不干正事,真的吃饱饭没事撑的,花那么大的精力捉摸这些不着边际的玩意儿。相比之下,咱老中对世界的理解就好像小孩般的幼稚。好像没有过什么探讨,只有对未知的恐惧和冷漠。
咱们和 Greek 这些差别原因在哪里呢? 能怪谁吗? 请大家讨论。
目的?我想会有助于对咱们这个民族(或人种)看得更清楚些。
===================== 博文发表后加的 ======================
刚出国时中国还很落后,自己也不敢或不愿去面对现实去探讨中国人。别人一说中国人这样那样,自己马上变得defensive, 现在国強民富了,自己的阅历也丰富一些,就变得勇敢点了。
认识一个民族是相当复杂的问题。我选择从中国人的地球观入手,目的就是简化问题,使我能从一个侧面分析中国人或中国文化。
不管怎样给自已贴标圈,咱们不能抹掉这个现实:咱们对周边世界(地球)的认识象小孩子一样:幼稚可笑;对这个世界(地球)的好奇却象百年老翁:顾不过来。
让我特别关心的不是地球的方或圆,而是:做为一个文化“博大精深”的民族,咱们对脚下踩着的土地是什么东西怎么会如此的冷莫?真的不担心走到天边时会掉下去?
怎么連这点好奇心都没有?
请大家从这个角度想一想好吗?谢谢。谢谢。
无知无为是纯粹的中国人。
谢谢二位,你们显然都是各自领域里的专家。Wish to hear a lot more from you both. "A brief history of time" is indeed very difficult to read and few people will enjoy reading it, but it does make it a bit easier to understand the concepts of space, time, and relativity. But let's not hasten to make a judgement on the book.
我到现在,没有听到任何一位在国内的亲戚朋友提到这本书。
古代和现在,没有任何本质区别。do not waste your time anymore.
柏拉图、欧几里得属于西方哲学的鼻祖,西方哲学主体上就是超自然学(形而上学),其本质就是神学。在人文(不是科学)方面的应用是很危害的,能看透他本质的只可能是局外人,你以后也许明白我在说什么。
就你博文而言,不要混淆了文化和科学。文化只有不同没有先进落后之分;科学只是工具,必须得由价值观指导,而价值观则来自一个文化的核心,哲学或宗教。
你是这个文化垃圾站鲜有好学的国人,建议你上thegreatcousres.com买几门课系统地听听?
'无知无为',
I am enormously interested in why the 'TMD' (笑)Greek would be thinking about what the earth was and how the universal worked as a system, and Aristotle even discussed the concept of 'Time'. Space and Time? Come on! It would matter little, or not at all, if the earth was flat or square in those early days. What would cause them even to think about such things? Also the Euclid geometry was so perfect and correct that it still stands true after 2300 years. What caused them to study geometry to such a great depth, which was totally impractical, and absolutely useless, in those days. 能当饭吃啊?
I hope you understand why I am asking such questions, out of shear curiosity. As you said 有点二百五精神. 谢谢。
谢谢你的鼓励。 我不再为自己是中国人自卑了。 剩下的最大自卑就只有这个了。I know you are an Greek expert. Please help me in my struggle in seeking an answer to my question. It is really an academic exercise for me, no emotion attached, definitely not a national pride thing for me. Thank you. 谢谢
I am not yet able to comment on your view, which I think is incredibly interesting, and I truly wish you can write more about it. I will be the very first one to read it.
Thank you for sharing.
使用汉字 --〉对发音的简单处理 --〉 一音多字以及词组局限在2字 --〉 口头交流成问题 --〉口头交流局限于更少量汉字(发音容易被区别出的汉字)--〉思维停留在低级层次 (没有人与人的会话交流了,如何提高思维?)
谢谢您的评论。
刚出国时中国还很落后,自己也不敢或不愿去面对现实去探讨中国人。别人一说中国人这样那样,自己马上变得defensive,
现现国強民富了,自己的阅历也丰富一些,就变得勇敢了。认识一个民族是相当复杂的问题。我选择从中国人的地球观入手,目的就是简化问题,使我能从一个侧面分析中国人或中国文化。
不管怎样给自已贴标圈,咱们不能抹掉这个现实:咱们对周边世界的认识象小孩子一样:幼稚可笑;对这个世界的好奇却象百年老翁:顾不过来。
让我特别关心的不是地球的方或圆,而是:做为一个文化“博大精深”的民族,咱们对脚下踩着的土地是什么东西怎么会如此的冷莫?真的不担心走到天边时会掉下去?怎么連这点好奇心都没有?