凛子2008-01-29 05:52:47回复悄悄话
I like your writing style very much. Plain words with some philosophical thinking.
孤舟蓑笠翁502007-12-11 19:34:17回复悄悄话
I would agree completely if either party (or both) proceeded the divorce with no third party’s involvement – have some decency (if he has any :).
Otherwise, please don’t waist energy creating 冠冕堂皇的理由中伤对方 (like here the wife was just a woman with no spiritual taste and elegance etc.). 尽可借用“莫须有”啊. The energies saved can be used completely for the third party – isn’t it a win-win situation!
anie2007-11-29 20:38:56回复悄悄话
Good comments! If I continue it will be - Men will receive respect from their wives if they continue respect their wives. The respect should come from HEART (not making it as a must do task or even a task one has to do but not even willing to do) so the respect will be shown on daily communication and behavior or even a face expression. I believe Gold Rule will play.
We are so deeply in sin so we make it so hard to do. It’s not hard to respect friends, co-workers, etc but the person we know so well and we chose to be live in the same roof.
If is so true that tolerance is one of the key factor to keep the marriage going. And it is also so true that selfishlessness is the basic condition to make the tolerance possible. Yet, this must come from both sides otherwise one side will reach the tolerance threshood and start thinking about leaving.
I am not trying to be "pessimistic". Some times, one of the reason for a man to stay with problematic marriage is sex. Once he reaches certain point in his life when he no longer weights the sex as much as personal satisfactory at other fronts, the marriage is no longer an attraction.
Sorry for this "straight talk". It appears that some wives want to blaim the broken marriage on their husbands' unfaithfulness to the marriage. Yet I believe they should also realize that, as it is unblievable as it sounds, there are many men actually weight the marriage very heavily. But some want to get out so badly simply because they do not feel to be respected even though they have been trying so hard, selfishlessly, to respect their wives, yet do not get selfishless respect from the other half.
anie2007-11-28 20:55:17回复悄悄话
I used to read an article some where saying that when women ask for divorce they may have different reasons men only have one reason that is he has an affair. It’s true for what I saw around me. I believe if Lao Zheng didn't have the new lover he would never ask for divorce. He survived for 20 year why not more?! Good couples are those who are willing to change themselves to match the other half. The result is that they will be changed to match each other. Danial Neal(I believe he is an inventor) was asked a question. What are the rules you live by? He answered: “…That and tolerance. It’s about listening to other people’s perspectives on problems and needs and being open to them, and being willing to change your point of view” Selfish person only see his or her needs and problem and can’t see other’s even the one lived together for years.
laojie2007-11-28 06:00:16回复悄悄话
回复SunDiego的评论:"or a satisfying spirit?" -- Based on this story, do you really believe that Lao-Zheng is after a "satifying spirit"? If you are a woman, you don't know men; if you are a man, you don't know yourself (I assume you are honest).
Good point but what's more important, a clean floor or a satisfying spirit? I think at different stage people value them differently. Yes I am pretty sure 老郑 miss the clean floor but as long as he can tolerate a dirtier floor, everything will be good.
同意.他老郑其实该早离,但是在当时的中国会有很大压力.
Otherwise, please don’t waist energy creating 冠冕堂皇的理由中伤对方 (like here the wife was just a woman with no spiritual taste and elegance etc.). 尽可借用“莫须有”啊. The energies saved can be used completely for the third party – isn’t it a win-win situation!
不合适的人应该早分开.
对老郑来说地板是否要多干净也许并不重要.
We are so deeply in sin so we make it so hard to do. It’s not hard to respect friends, co-workers, etc but the person we know so well and we chose to be live in the same roof.
If is so true that tolerance is one of the key factor to keep the marriage going. And it is also so true that selfishlessness is the basic condition to make the tolerance possible. Yet, this must come from both sides otherwise one side will reach the tolerance threshood and start thinking about leaving.
I am not trying to be "pessimistic". Some times, one of the reason for a man to stay with problematic marriage is sex. Once he reaches certain point in his life when he no longer weights the sex as much as personal satisfactory at other fronts, the marriage is no longer an attraction.
Sorry for this "straight talk". It appears that some wives want to blaim the broken marriage on their husbands' unfaithfulness to the marriage. Yet I believe they should also realize that, as it is unblievable as it sounds, there are many men actually weight the marriage very heavily. But some want to get out so badly simply because they do not feel to be respected even though they have been trying so hard, selfishlessly, to respect their wives, yet do not get selfishless respect from the other half.
Good point but what's more important, a clean floor or a satisfying spirit? I think at different stage people value them differently. Yes I am pretty sure 老郑 miss the clean floor but as long as he can tolerate a dirtier floor, everything will be good.
其实我认为本文的结局并非结局，也许只是另一段故事的开始。新婚自然春风得意，只是5年后，7年后呢，是否从新来过。同卵双生的双胞胎，都可以大不相同，更何况两个毫无血缘的异性男女。一起生活50，100年，永远什么都一致，是根本不可能的。时间可以毁灭一切，在这一点上，前妻和女记者没区别。所以我同意老蔫儿的兼容和容忍，或者类似的概念。不过我要补充一点，婚姻是两个人的事，如果只有单方面兼容或容忍也是无法维系的。像老郑和前妻双方都没有这种兼容意向，分手到也是合情合理了。
Wafik：那位老大姐的话有哲理啊！人民群众的眼睛是雪亮的。
SAM333 ：俺就怕看到全心全意付出的女人，往往没有好结局。
laojie 、卡夫 、suiyuan9 砂锅2 浪漫樱花、心灵之约 等一干网友们：老郑两口子的日子挺不正常的，他们两个人的沟通存在严重问题。从某种意义上说老郑也算有良心，等到女儿离家了才提出离婚。
他们俩后来都再婚了，刚结婚时老郑的确意气风发，后来过得怎么样我出国了没有联系就不好说了。
如果结局是真的，那是他们都很幸运，晚年还找到了合适自己的那一半。现实生活中，这样的幸运儿不知道能有几个。
他们那个年代，真正以爱情为基础的婚姻恐怕不多，不过经过20多年的风风雨雨，就是没有爱情，亲情还是在的，能真正抛弃这个亲情的男人，心还真够狠！
自私的要别人理解他，他试过去理解一下老婆么，如果老婆不爱他，会一直照顾他么？老郑自以为是的高尚爱好又在何时伤了老婆的自尊呢，难道自私至此，还能获得幸福？
行，捧过了，再侃两句。不是批评，甚至不能算是评论。只能算是忽悠吧。
男女婚姻这事儿实在是难讲。丈夫要离婚，移情别恋当然可能是原因。但从俺有限的人圈儿来看，比例并不高。只有极少数因男人回国发展，来来往往多了在国内找了个“第二春”最后撤了毯子。其他似乎只能算是无法再在一个屋檐下共存了。原因可能再简单不过：”男人来自火星，女人来自金星”。思维方式太不一样了。。。
以上是看了真妮前一篇儿有感而发的开头。结果一忙，把机会错过了。她自己把话给说了，把上篇儿的窟窿给堵上了。得，咱就不再接那个话茬儿，接着这个来吧！
真妮说的极是。不过俺还想再加一点儿，婚姻“大多”是没有对错。只是合适不合适。至于说爱情，想来大伙听说过这样一个说法：结婚是爱情的结束，生孩子是爱情的坟墓。这话可能过于极端。也别说老蔫儿太悲观。曾和几个年轻朋友交流过。没有人能很好地回答“什么是爱情”。而且通常女孩儿在一开始还能描述几句。就这话茬儿反问几句词儿就没了。不少男孩儿一开始就是一张问号的脸。当然这是在男女朋友，或少夫妻不在一块儿时问的。必须承认，这个问题太复杂。对年轻人来说，太理想化。对年龄大一些的人来说，什么都干过，什么都经历。问了半天，结果只剩下 “亲情”二字。
曾问过热恋中吵架的少男少女什么是维持婚姻的关键。他们异口同声地说“爱情”
问到具体的，则张口结舌。又说是“妥协”。又问为什么能妥协，则又是语塞。最后老蔫儿和他们穷拽说，维持婚姻只有两条：兼容和容忍。要说兼容，那得要是“吃喝拉撒睡，衣食住行性”，缺一不可。您可能要问，世上没有完全兼容的人。对啦，这就是为什么要有容忍。就是容忍那些虽然大多兼容，但还少不了会有让人想跳脚骂街抽嘴巴子的事儿。人很聪明，经常会调整容忍的门槛儿来给自己找理由不跳到城外边儿去。当最后逼得走投无路了，门槛儿高过鼻梁，实在过不去，只好离婚了事儿。看来老郑就是这么回事儿。
不过，结束是显得有些俗。除非这是个儿真事儿。要不怎么说我们都是世俗之人呢。
但是执行起来困难多多。