潇洒人生路
人的一生最重要的是自由和随之而来的责任。
Obama and John McCain both talk about American dream.
According to Obama, if you work but can't make the house payment, don't have health insurance, then someone is taking away American dream from you.
Who are those people? How dare they are?!
According to Obama, those people are rich people who make more than $250,000.00, and big corporations. It is government's duty to take money from those people and hand it over to those who are struggling.
The Obama plan would raise the top two marginal rates of 33% and 35% to 36% and 39% and hike the capital gains rate from 15% to 20%.
The effective top marginal rate of 38% for top earners could rise to 48% to 50%, including a new Social Security payroll tax on wage income above $250,000.
The Obama plan would cut taxes for many middle class earners. The ones left out would find tax credits phase out as income increases. Many middle-income households will face somewhat higher effective marginal tax rates due to the phase-outs.
Under the Obama plan, a family of four with an income of $31,000 to $45,000 could end up with a marginal tax rate 34% to 39%, 13 percentage points higher than under the current tax code.
Even with lower overall tax takes, higher marginal rates could reduce the incentive to work or improve skills to seek higher-paying jobs.
According to John McCain, if you make less than $5 million a year, you are not a real rich people. John McCain will not raise tax on any group, and he will reduce business tax to give incentive for business owners to create more jobs, to promote competition within a free-market system.
Obama teased about John McCain has seven houses, attacking him as rich people who is out of touch with regular Americans. But to John McCain, owning seven houses is living his American dream.
Those houses belong to John McCain's wife, Cindy McCain. Cindy's father fought World War II, he came home with honor and started his own business from scratch. He made himself a multi-millionaire and passed on his legacy to his own daughter.
Cindy McCain also has her own business and run a lot of Charities to help disadvantaged people around the world.
A daughter of a high school graduate and WWII hero has 7 houses to live with her husband, who served this country as POW, for years had no table, not bed, no future.
Cindy and John McCain are successful couples, they are rich but they did not steal from any one.
Isn't that living your dream by working hard with your bare hands an American Dream?
As one of millions of Chinese American, I came to this country to live my own American Dream.
I came here with scholarship from a well known university. Just like many of you, I worked for someone else after graduation. And llike some of you, I quit my job and started my own venture. I believe that this country is the last country in the world that you can make it if you work hard. And I did, I have made my American Dream come true.
I don't have seven houses like John McCain does, but I am working on it.
Be what you want to be, working hard to earn your own destiny. That is American Dream!
It is American Dream for it only can happen in America. It is a dream that can come true if you ever think yes I can and yes I will.
So for those liberal and democrats who think rich people owe you anything, although I am not that rich myself, I say no! Hard working and successful Americans that you call "Rich People" don't owe you anything. Although we are only 5% of all tax payers, we contribute 50% of all US personal income tax revenue. The government has taken enough money out of us.
No more Obama! Not a penny more!
If you work hard like I did, or like many immigrants from poor countries did, you will live your own American Dream.
I believe that in America, you are all entitled to only what belongs to you, and what belongs to you should be the reward for your own hard work, not because you were born here, not because you look different, not because this and that. To take other people's money without working on it, without any gratitude, is nothing but a steal.
Yes, we all need to help each others, especially the disadvantaged groups, people who have served for this country, the working poors, and our seniors. It is our duty to help our fellow citizens who are not able or no longer able to help themselves. We want all hard working Americans to live with dignity and proud, to help them so they can help themselves to make their own American Dream come true.
But for someone who can work but contribute nothing to the society, for those who want to take everything from others, especially for those who are not even legal to be here, here is your stop sign from us who work our heart out day in and day out:
You can have your own dream, but don't you dare to steal mine!
Cannot agree more on this! Guys can't you write short but powerful message like this one! First, I do think this guy should pay back to the society, secondly, many of the most wealthy people in this country are actually democratic, because a selfish mind cannot generate real richness by any means...
I still think it is wrong and a very elitist view to assume success is a product of hard work ONLY. Many people work hard and are just as smart but only few can be successful. What makes the difference is luck. Of course you need to work hard to increase your chance of success. But luck, by nature is a random thing and you have wait for it to find you. For people who are not as lucky as I am, I feel obliged to share my luck, something that is given to me without me doing anything.
误会了，我说的是在人生的更高的境界里，钱不再是什么值得追求的目标了。
Thanks for letting me know I'm low life (I don't mind as I know you have that "freedom") but the reason I'm patient to talk to you is to tell you your understanding of China is outdated and the kind of "freedom" you are referring to is very much achievable here too. It does need work (as does the US) but to me that's more relevant and meaningful than working on the US system.
Have a good day.
Noso, please answer my question directly. You can do better than that.
Noso, please answer my question directly.
Time will tell you that Obama is nothing but a phony leader, whose ability is limited to stir up the mass movement to elect him into the office.
That's why he has no plan for change, but offer hope to change.
I am amazed where the heck you get your conclusion from. So many people agree with me, I guess they understand my point, but not you.
First of all, I did not say that to you.
Second of all, I asked you to check IRS documents, not some crap from CNN.
Finally, please try to make a point than to bash without any merit.
What American can offer to us and our next generations is unreachable by China : Something money can't buy, it is called Freedom. You can say no money no freedom, that's because you have not achieved to a certain level of your life yet.
税收的目的是什么？是保障你能在一个和谐社会里实现你的美国梦。只看见你的钱包是没有用的。没有你的纳税，你能看住你的钱包吗？
Couldn't agree more with this statement!
TO NOSO:
Where do you think your scholarship (when you first came to US) came from? Whether it's from government funding or personal donation to your school, it was from RICH people. Don't you think it's time for you to pay back to the society?
Curious what kind of organization and when you were in China that should have left you such an impression. It appears to me that must have been at least 10 years ago. It's true that smart and hard-working people can usually make money wherever they are - a thought I held quite a few years ago - but afterwards I realized that "money" could be in different scales depending on opportunities. That's the difference between Chinese dream and American dream today. I can see you are passionate about this Obama vs. McCaine thing - unfortunately most likely this is more of an opportunity for you to THINK you are important than reality.
Separately I have some difficulty reconciling this maybe someone can help me out here. After college graduation, some of my classmates stayed in China, some went to the States and stayed, and some like me went to the States and came back to China. If I compare those in China vs. those in the States, I have to feel sympathy for those in the States, especially with a falling dollar and rising RMB. As a group I think those in China are doing better than those in the States on absolute monetary terms, needless to say social status. $100k is only worth RMB684k today (and seems declining further). That's not too much in big cities like Shanghai or Beijing. So I can only assume the main reason people are hanging in tough in the States is because they are not aware, or they just don't want change??
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm
From noso:
To "y2r3": if you don't know where Obama's tax rate hike data comes from, how are you entitled to instruct other people to get some education on tax policy? I found a good article analyzing Obama's tax policy. http://www.ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=304297643560219To "y2r3": if you don't know where Obama's tax rate hike data comes from, how are you entitled to instruct other people to get some education on tax policy? I found a good article analyzing Obama's tax policy. http://www.ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=304297643560219 You can read it if you are interested so that next time you can make some educated argument when the issue comes up
by noworry
站在中产阶级的立场上， 无忧是绝对不会投票奥把马， 因为奥把马永远不会给无忧带来实际的利益。 老实说， 无忧以后，在万不得已的情况下，是绝对不会投票任何民主党的总统竞选人， 因为无忧觉得民主党的行为已经越来越让无忧同志感到失望，我们大美帝国在民主党的理念和意识的执政下，在不远的将来要么会变成满清末期的中国， 要么会变成毛泽东式的新型的封建中国， 这都是伟大的无忧同志移民美国所不愿意见到的。
在这无无可奈何的情况下， 无忧也只有投票这老买英雄了， 但愿他老当益壮， 不负众望，使美国的传统文化和精神与现代的科学和进步有机的结合起来， 让大美帝国永放光芒。
What is in trouble right now in America? Economy! And how is Obama’s agenda helping our economy?
Wealth redistribution: everyone knows the fundamental to capitalism is faith in stability of property rights, anything threatening that stability scares the hell out of capital markets. Obama being president itself is a threat to the markets.
Higher tax: No wonder people in Europe love Obama. In Europe corporate tax is effectively more than 50% of profits, but governments run budget deficits year after year, why? because State pays individuals for medical treatment and other welfare. These comforts are killing their competitiveness. Even China is alot less socialism, in China 100 million mingong receive no benefits and government expenditures are lower as a proportion of GDP, meaning lower taxes on corporate and individual. Obama wants higher investment tax higher business tax and corporate providing better healthcare, but he wants our manufacturers to be able to compete with those in emerging markets at the same time? How? None of his stuff makes sense.
Funny that Biden only has 150k in assets, Mccain/Romney are richer than Obama/Biden will ever be. Do you believe anyone who can't manage his own pay checks is going reduce our national debt, get us through the housing mess, put us back on prosperity?
You need to understand better how economics works in a free market (with government's hands!) Money flows
Isn't America the closest sample of such an economy? I just see the ordinary working class people benefit little from the huge profit the coperations earned from globalization.
I never said the "greedy rich". I said human nature is greedy. Thus the coperations needs to be balanced by an organization like government. I know the best part of capitalism is getting more if working hard. But pure capitalism has a ugly side. that discussion might go too far. My goal is not to join the top 0.1%. my goal is to do what I like and work with open-minded people. As for my American dream, I have said it in my previous post. Some of my friends and family members don't want to pay more tax either and they support Mccain, I understand.
sorry, should be (without government's hands!)
I'm not going to discuss race issue here before it goes too far. Just one thing, any government run "creative programs" will not be any better off than simply handing out bucks. History proved that they are ususally inefficient and corrupted.
"Again, I think human nature is greedy, capitalism is making maximum profit. I can not see if the coperations are less taxed, they would increase salary or whatever benefit."
You need to understand better how economics works in a free market (with government's hands!) Money flows. The extra cash companies make doesn't just sit there. Thinking about possible paths it goes, even if raising salaries is not always the only option:
--- new investment. Company will have to hire more people. Benefit "ordinary" people
--- wage increase for workers to keep competitive in the job market. It might not be the company's choice then because with all companies in the same field having extra cash at hand, one must raise salary to attract better people. Benefit "ordinary" people
--- give bonus to share holders. I believe you must have more or less in 401K and stock account. that way ordinary people like you also gets benefit.
--- capital investment. booms new technology and ventures. ordinary technical people like you and me (I assume) could potentially benefit from it and bring our ideas to our own business. more opptunities definitely benefit "ordinary" people because that's all we want.
--- leave it all to management. (is that possible in a public company with board and share holders?) that might be the evilest case you might think. But who knows, one day you might be there too! :) You talked a lot about greedy "rich", but actually in US, "the rich" is a very mobile definition. the top 0.1% we are talking about is quite different from the top 0.1% 10 years ago, 20 years ago! that's the charm of captalism!
"Only the democratic party principles can bring down the huge gap between the rich and the poor, which will keep American society stable"
What do you mean by "keep American society stable"? if you mean poor remains poor and live upon wellfare generation by generation, then you are definitely right about Democratic party's goal! Congratulations for finally realizing it.
Most of us coming here are not looking for stability. If that's the case, noso should be satisfied with his a few thousand bucks in pocket and a rental apartment when he came here (I just assume). Government will take care of everything anyways. If that's the case, you should live in the 60's of China, or go to Canada.
And imagine what will happen when Obama goes to power and wants to pay back more to black community for "historical injustic".... and all our Chinese people will suffer from higher tax but not a generally assumed raising of status as part of the minorities.
"historical injustice" truly happened to the black Americans. The country did implement many policies later on trying to make up. However, the discrimination rooted deeply at the bottom of many white Americans' hearts against black Americans is never truly gone. I am saying they never truly "respect" black american even if many policies are practiced. Perhaps that is why black americans' social and economical positions still remain low by now. The psychological element affects a person and a race significantly. I can hardly imagine helping people simply means " handing them a few bucks". Perhaps the government should be more creative to try new programs to narrow the overall gap between different races. However, no matter what it does, the government needs money. About Chinese 's social status in America, it was many democrats including the civil rights leaders and JFK ,that made great contributions to improve it. Again, money is not everything. Social justice and balance are more important to the stability of a society. Only the democratic party principles can bring down the huge gap between the rich and the poor, which will keep American society stable. I think when the gap becomes alarming, if there were any chaos, it would be minorities such as Chinese bearing the consequences but not the majority white people.
first of all, if the government taxes less on cooperations and business, the chance of me getting laid off in my fifties without any insurence and pension is much less,
I wish coperations run as simply and gracefully as you said. Bush reduced tax of the rich people, I did not see any real increase of ordinary people's income. Again, I think human nature is greedy, capitalism is making maximum profit. I can not see if the coperations are less taxed, they would increase salary or whatever benefit.
a good economic growth and my hardworking should help me to save enough in my fifties "
I have seen hardworking people don't have enough savings in their fifties.
This is exactly the tactic Democrats are trying to play. The more they take away from you, the more you have to rely on them. then of course the more power they gain.
You are right. Little good politicians are left in this world. Not everyone goes to church is a saint. Democrats or republicans, who knows except trying to gain themselves some benefits, what do they really believe? But I still hope and want to do things to let my children to live in a world in which many faudemental democratic ideas are truly held, believed and practiced.
It is actually nice to have a discussion in this board. I need to go back to work now. Making money and making more money, what a life!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html
According to a new analysis by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution, Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain are both proposing tax plans that would result in cuts for most American families. Obama's plan gives the biggest cuts to those who make the least, while McCain would give the largest cuts to the very wealthy. For the approximately 147,000 families that make up the top 0.1 percent of the income scale, the difference between the two plans is stark. While McCain offers a $269,364 tax cut, Obama would raise their taxes, on average, by $701,885 - a difference of nearly $1 million.
The data on household tax came from IBD, which is the only paper now I can trust the numbers printed on it, not even WSJ. I'm sure you can find it somewhere else as well, like US census, or IRS document. If you file tax return, and your income is in the lower bracket, then you don't have to pay anything, or even get return, but you are still identified as a "tax payer".
I believe "The people around me, friends and family" are mostly in Chinese community. Most of the Chinese people won't be content to live on government handout for a minimum living condition. You should go to check out what's going on in the black and hispanic community (bare me to be "racist" here). Some of them have been living on wellfare for generations even though they are perfectly capable of working and making a living. And imagine what will happen when Obama goes to power and wants to pay back more to black community for "historical injustic".... and all our Chinese people will suffer from higher tax but not a generally assumed raising of status as part of the minorities.
As for the situation you mentioned...
first of all, if the government taxes less on cooperations and business, the chance of me getting laid off in my fifties without any insurence and pension is much less, than if they impose a "universal health care" now and force a lot of companies put more in the health care fund and have to cut back hiring and investment. I hope you can understand that, that the money in "universal health care" is not from sky, but from your pocket and mine, and from our companies which will eventurally be turned into lower wage or less jobs for us.
second, if it really happens, with my skills and experience, I don't think I will be in that situation very long in a robust economy. And a robust economy only survives with less government interference and lower tax. If companies are surfering from addiontal tax for "universal health care" and all other social wellfare programs, and can't afford to hire more, only that, my chance of finding another job at my level will be diminished.
third, a good economic growth and my hardworking should help me to save enough in my fifties and I should be able to cover myself with insurance and retirement. Only when government is trying to take everything from me and allocates it based on their political needs, then I should be worried about being left with no cover and have to "cling to" government help. This is exactly the tactic Democrats are trying to play. The more they take away from you, the more you have to rely on them. then of course the more power they gain.
Hope I'm making myself clear enough here. I believe you are a hardworking and kind thinking person, wake up from the dream of government care!
well, I guess we came from different background and experience our life differently. I said in my writting that we need to take care of those who can't or no longer can take care of themselves. We want all Americans have their own dream come true, whatever that it. The problem is that people like Obama who USE lower incom people for his own good really makes me sick. Every sucessful people I know, including myself, donate a lot of our time and money to the underprevileged. But to think that we should be punished for working hard and making more money is totally wrong. We didn't steal from anyone, don't steal from us either.
It may sound selfish, but who is going to look after you when you are sick? That's right, your own family and your own saving. So as long as John McCain is not going to raise my tax, I will vote for him even if he is a Democrat.
Considering the sky high premiums from current private insurance, a state-funded universal health insurance program would work much better and fair. It does sound selfish if you meant after working hard for their whole life, they deserve to die when their family and savings are not able to take care of them. Even for the children who are born in illegal immigrants families, I don't agree they deserve to die when they are sick and they are not entitled to go to public schools because of their parents' mistakes. Anyway, life and success are not only about money after all. I came to America not because rich people live a better life here but because the unprivileged ones live better in this country. My American dream is living in a country where people have a sense of justice, have a high moral standard and the less fortunate people are protected, helped and can also live a life with dignity.
Although we see the world quite differently, I enjoy reading your blog posts. One of my family members doesn’t want to pay more tax, we argue sometimes too.
"Politicians are professional liars.", I agree with you on this.
To me. they can say all they want, lead or mislead voters. The bottom line is: are you going to take more money out of MY pocket, or are you going to let me keep what belongs to me at the first place.
Businee people pay double tax. One for personal incom, another for business income, state and federal.
Just what government can do for you when you really need it? Nothing! For those entitled payment programs, most Chinese professionals are not qualified.
It may sound selfish, but who is going to look after you when you are sick? That's right, your own family and your own saving. So as long as John McCain is not going to raise my tax, I will vote for him even if he is a Democrat.
and what shocked me was that out of 115 million total US households, 58 million of them don't pay tax at all even some of them file tax forms every year and considered "tax payers" too.
Really? Where did you find the data? How did they get tax rebate if they don't pay tax at all? If they cheat, I would say IRS should fix the problem. But I don't agree to change the system. I totally agree with what you said about charity. If majority of rich people were willing to put more money into charity work like buffett and bill gates, the government should not raise their tax. But I believe human nature is greedy, most of them would not do that. The income gap between CEOs and ordinary workers is HUGE. That is wrong. The people around me, friends and family, I see nobody just wants to "keep them in the bare minimal living condition on governement handout" like you said. Everybody works hard to gain a better life. But try to think about one situation: you were laid off in your fifties after working hard for all the past years and you were in a poor health condition, what would you end up without a universal insurance program? I don't know how Obama as a politican is different from John Mccain. Politicians are professional liars and I don't really expect either of them makes a big change. I just approve many faudamental principles of democratic party.
Well, I had a great time when I was in China, I got bored so I came to US.
I rather be here to be what I want to be, other then be someone the leaders wanted me to be. Moneywise, hard working and smart people can make money anywhere they go. I consider myself is one of those people.
Thanks.
Thanks.
I have to beg to differ here - I don't feel being any un-free here in China and I think a lot of the returnees would agree with me. Whilst u are still trying to make your weak voice heard in your adopted country, in a bid to save a few thousand dollars a year (US$ seems to become worthless BTW), your former countrymen are creating enormous wealth here. I'm seeing Chinese dreams are being realized around me - not just by Chinese, also Americans, Brits, Aussies, Koreans... It's wonderful.
right, I will not vote for Obama becuase he is against capitalism and successful people. He is giving people phony hopes that he will bring change to America. Let me tell you something: his change is put out for election, and bad for America.
no money,no freedom, capital rules all.
回复billion777的评论:
Dear friend, we are different. Money is not everything, freedom is.
I don't mind to pay my share on tax, I live here of cuz I need to pay for the lifestyle that I am enjoying, the freedom that men and women are fighting for in Iraq and everywhere.
If John McCain wants to raise tax for national defense, he still get my vote.
What Obama is trying to do is to punish hard working people who make over $250,000.00.
In his plan, we are better of making much less and not working hard.
The question is: if making more money will be punished to pay penlty, who will work anymore?
Obama wants to tax on rich people and business,and give them to the people who can but rather not working, guess what will happen next?
Thanks. : ) Feel free to copy and post it anywhere you want.
Thanks for your support and understanding. Shake hands. : )
John McCain stands for something that will benefit us and our second generations: Strong national defense and protection of personal property, lower income tax, less government, free market economy.
If I like socialism as Obama and democrats are promoting, I would have stayed in China.
Thanks.
Once you make over $250,000.00, then you know what I am talking about here.
Obama and all deomcrats are good at giving people phony hopes for their own goods.
Obama made $4.2 mil in 07, and Clintons make $70.00 mil since Bill left the white house.
What about middle-class American? Same old crap every day.
We are different, so we have different goals for your life. I don't belive luck, although I got lucky many times.
But opportunity is reserved for hard working people who are ready.
Thanks. : )
Chinese Dream? I had one long time before, not as good as American one.
Thanks anyway. : )
Where? you don't think I made this up, do you?
There are many things you don't understand, doesn't mean I don't.
Thanks. :)
Thanks. : )
It is shame for you came here to bash without any merit.
Why don't you do your homework by checking out IRS's related documents.
By the way, don't ask me to give you a link. If you are that smart, you know where to get them.
Complete rubbish!
What percentage American make 1-5 million? 0.2-1.0 million?
Who is paying, going to pay for the War in Iraq?
Economy has had a steepest decent in the last some years, and whatever you said about McCain's policies are identical to Bush's idea for the last 8 years. In short: Republicans have abused their power and screwed up their chance. You need to do a much harder work than this to convince me!
No matter how excellent your points are, how great McCain personally is, it can't beat the fact that Americans had tough years during Bush\Republican presidency. You want more years of last 8 years? Most people don't, unless they believe that Obama will make it even worse.
Stealing dreams? Don’t be ridiculous, it's about opportunity, a fair and healthy environment, hardworking isn’t enough to get you success.
Thanks!
"I am in favor of one of the fundamental ideas of the Democratic Party: Wealthy people should pay more to the government so that the government could help those in disadvantaged positions."
I didn't think myself a weathy people at all, until I found that I didn't receive any tax rebate this year, but neighbour's mother who has been stopped working and doesn't pay any tax for year still receives $300. So I did a little bit search, and what shocked me was that out of 115 million total US households, 58 million of them don't pay tax at all even some of them file tax forms every year and considered "tax payers" too. And a lot of them actually receive money from government which their have been lived on for 2 or 3 generations! Are you telling me that they are just "some lazy people would take advantage of this system"? If we keep the wellfare system, the society will move more and more towards that direction. This is not so called "economic justice", but a coated economic slavery! Those people will keep voting for Democratic party which keeps them in the bare minimal living condition on governement handout so they don't have to work. I believe you are not one of them, and you might even feel happy that you can "help" people with your hard-earned money to support a big government. But be aware that: 1) those people are not better off with the "help" from your kind heart, in fact, they will be kept in disadvantage position much longer with all the free handouts; 2) some people, aka, Democrats and liberals, are exploiting this mindset to gain and retain their political power. Afterall, with a true compassionate heart, you can use your money to help charities, or someone you know who truly needs help, why do you so desperately need someone else to spend your money for you?
To"llbyw ": to your knowledge, an average student in public school spends more money (from government) per year than an a student in private school. Look at the US cencus data here: http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/education/011747.html. Government spends nearly an average of $15K on every student in public school in New York. All those money comes from the pockets of you and me (not a penny from illegal immigrants who send their kids to public school for free). If you get to keep the $15K in your pocket, you can send your child to a Montessori certified school without sacrificing your daily life. In Arizona, the average government expenditure per student in public school is $6,844 in 2006; but you can send your child to a Montessori school (not a Montessor certified one) for only about $5,000. Not to mention, more money in public school system doesn't mean improving of the quality of education. Students from private school usually have far more better academic performance compared to public school students at the same grade. Another example is DC, they are among the top 3 high expenditure school district, but their students performance is among the lowest and corruption of school administrations is noxious. I believe if government can get its hands out of the education system, and leave the money to parents to make their free choice, the education in US will be far more better than the current broken public education system.
To "y2r3": if you don't know where Obama's tax rate hike data comes from, how are you entitled to instruct other people to get some education on tax policy? I found a good article analyzing Obama's tax policy. http://www.ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=304297643560219 You can read it if you are interested so that next time you can make some educated argument when the issue comes up.
no matter how hard your work, without government funded infrastructure and taxing system, you'll be a nobody.
Thanks. : )
Thanks. : )
Thanks. : )
谢谢。