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美国网友问:欧美人几乎不事生产为什么这么富有

(2023-02-15 23:42:57) 下一个

美国网友问:欧美人民几乎不事生产为什么这么富有?

2023-02-15 16:37:59 来源: 曲乐逗
 
一般发达国家,像西欧的国家第三产业即服务业占GDP70%以上,从业人数比重也最大,越发达的国家服务业的知识性和科技含量会更高,服务业的工资还是由国家的创汇大项决定的,教育、创新、科技会决定利润的上限。发达国家是抱团发展的,以美国为首,所以美英德法等工业及科教强国能带动一批小国走向发达。在美版知乎Quora上,美国网友提问道:欧美人民几乎不事生产为什么这么富有?这引起各国网友的围观和热议,我们看看他们的观点。


问题


中国网友卢卡•杨的回答

Western developed countries have mastered a lot of advanced science and technology by relying on the first-mover advantage. Even small countries in Europe can earn a lot of money by relying on one or two advanced technologies and live a rich and comfortable life.

西方发达国家依靠先发优势,掌握了大量先进的科学技术,即便是欧洲很小的国家,也可以依靠一两样先进技术赚大钱,过上富裕、安逸的生活。

I have repeatedly told a story told to me by my college tutor. His tutor graduated from college in the early 1980s. At that time, a classmate in his class went to the United States through various relationships and found a job killing fish in the supermarket, which made everyone envy. Because he earns 2000 dollars a month from killing fish, which is more than the income of domestic professors in a year.

我曾经反复讲过我的大学导师给我讲的一个故事,他的导师八十年代初大学毕业,当时班上有个同学通过各种关系去了美国,在超市找了个杀鱼的工作,惹得大家无比羡慕。因为他杀鱼一个月的收入有两千美金,比国内教授一年的收入还多。

This is the country that has mastered the top of the technology and industrial chain. The life of the lowest level citizens is better than that of the best elites in other countries.

这就是掌握科技和产业链顶端的国家,最底层国民的生活,比其他国家最优秀的精英还过得好。


For example, before the birth of the SPC exchange, the foreign SPC exchange sold 30000 yuan per set, and an additional heat sink was required. In fact, it was an ordinary iron sheet, and the charge was 3000 yuan. If you don't agree, you won't sell your machine.

比如,程控交换机诞生之前,国外的程控交换机卖三万块一台,并且还要额外配一块散热板,实际上就是一片普通铁片,收费三千元,要是不同意,那就不卖你机器。

The foreign engineers who design and produce these programmable controllers can, of course, work two or three days a week and take paid holidays everywhere.

设计和生产这些程控机的外国工程师,当然可以拿很高的工资,一周工作两三天,四处带薪度假。


For example, the shield machine for tunneling. Not only are there more than one billion units, but all maintenance must be carried out by German engineers flying from Germany. China will reimburse all travel and entertainment expenses. Labor costs are calculated according to German standards, and Chinese personnel are not allowed to be present during maintenance.

比如挖隧道的盾构机。不但十多亿一台,而且所有的维修都必须德国工程师从德国飞过来,中国要报销一切差旅费和招待费,工时费按德国标准算,而且维修时中方人员不得在场。

So for the Germans at that time, traveling to China was a beautiful business trip. They could eat, drink and play for free, and finally went home with more than 100000 euros.

所以对于当时的德国人来说出差中国是趟美差,可以免费吃喝游玩,最后揣着十几万欧元回家了。

Therefore, western developed countries do not need to work overtime, and have various kinds of enviable benefits such as paid leave. They can use high technology to harvest the wealth of the world. I also admired the leisurely and rich life of Europeans at that time, but I didn't realize that it was the result of the efforts of several generations.

所以西方发达国家不用加班,有着各种带薪休假等令人羡慕的福利。他们可以利用高科技收割全世界的财富。我当时也很羡慕欧洲人这种悠闲富裕的生活,却没有想到,这是人家几代人努力的结果。

The world is a pyramid. European and American countries use their technological advantages to stand at the top of the pyramid and enjoy various benefits. Now Chinese people want to climb up and live the same life as them. The problem is that the world's resources are limited. If we go up, some countries in the West will be squeezed out. They will never be reconciled.

这个世界是金字塔形的,欧美诸国就是利用自己的技术优势站在金字塔尖享受各种福利。现在中国人想爬上去,也想过上和他们一样的生活,问题是世界资源是有限的,如果我们上去了,西方必然有国家会被挤下来,他们是绝不会甘心的。

As US President Barack Obama said, if every Chinese people live a high standard of life, it will be a disaster.

就像美国总统奥巴马说的那样,如果每个中国人都过上高水平的生活,这将是一场灾难。

But how can the Chinese people be willing to stay at the bottom of the pyramid forever? What's wrong with pursuing a better life?

但是中国人民怎么甘心永远在金字塔的最底层呢,追求更好的生活有什么错呢?


印度网友巴拉吉的回答

Tom began to work as a cashier in a shop, and he did very well. A few years later, he was promoted to store manager and then general manager for several years. The general manager no longer produces anything tangible - he doesn't move things, doesn't handle cash registers, doesn't code websites, and doesn't do direct sales. However, he still made a lot of money.

汤姆开始在一家商店当收银员,他做得很出色。几年后,他被提升为商店经理,再当几年总经理。总经理不再生产任何有形的东西——他不搬东西,不处理收银机,不为网站编码,也不做直销。但是,他仍然赚了很多钱。

You need to produce something tangible to make a lot of money. This is a fallacy. Those who recognize this may have never attended a business course. The greatest value lies in producing intangible documents - coordinating production, leading the implementation of concepts, selling ideas to investors, and formulating business strategies that the company should engage in. Tangible assets are a commodity. Intangible assets are more rare and therefore of high value.

你需要生产一些有形的东西来赚大钱,这是一种谬论。认可这一点的人可能从未参加过商业课程。最大的价值在于产生无形的文件——协调生产、领导概念的执行、向投资者出售想法以及制定公司应该从事的业务战略。有形资产是一种商品。无形资产更为罕见,因此价值极高。

Of course, you need to start producing tangible assets to be eligible to produce intangible assets. You are not qualified to formulate an overall development strategy until you have worked in the front line for many years and made achievements.

当然,你需要开始生产有形资产,才能有资格生产无形资产。你没有资格制定整体发展战略,直到你在一线工作多年,并做出成绩。

The same is true for a country or an economy. When an economy is small and immature, it only produces tangible products - food, clothing, steel, and then a large number of low-value goods. You can touch and feel production. Unfortunately, all these are low value. Then it got promoted. It began to involve design, research and innovation - all of which are intangible.

一个国家或一个经济体也是一个道理。当一个经济体规模较小且不太成熟时,它只生产有形的产品——食物、衣服、钢铁,然后是大量低价值商品,你可以触摸和感受生产。不幸的是,所有这些都是低价值的。然后它得到了提升。它开始涉及设计、研究和创新——所有这些都是无形的。


In many cases, the general manager is mainly because he has worked in the company for many years and has a close relationship. He became the main way to connect the whole company. This is the role played by London and New York. For centuries, they have been dealing with this problem and have become trade centers. Sometimes, GM can formulate a clever strategy that may completely change their business mode.

很多时候,总经理主要是因为他在公司工作多年,关系密切,他成为连接管理整个公司的主要途径。这就是伦敦和纽约所扮演的角色。几个世纪以来,他们一直在处理这个问题,并成为贸易中心。有些时候,通用汽车可以制定一个巧妙的战略,可能会彻底改变他们的经营方式。

Think of a company like Apple. The physical mobile phone you touch is made in China. These are less than 10% of the product value. The main value is to connect all ideas to produce products that are meaningful to customers, or at least make everyone believe that it is meaningful to them. This is an almost monopoly advantage of Silicon Valley.

想想苹果这样的公司。你触摸到的实体手机是在中国制造的。这些低于产品价值的10%。主要价值在于将所有想法联系起来,以生产出对客户有意义的产品,或者至少让每个人都相信这对他们有意义。这是硅谷几乎垄断的优势。

If you really understand the practice of McKinsey and Goldman Sachs, it will not be difficult for you to understand how the American and British economies operate.

如果你真的了解麦肯锡或高盛的做法,你就不会很难理解美国和英国经济是如何运作的。

Many countries in Western Europe and the United States conduct high-level coordination to produce intangible assets - consulting, software, finance, marketing and high-tech manufacturing. Even the manufacturing industry of some German companies such as Siemens also involves many intangible assets such as intellectual property rights and creative innovation. This is why they are rich.

西欧和美国的许多国家进行高层协调,生产无形资产——咨询、软件、金融、营销和高科技制造业。即使是像西门子这样的一些德国公司的制造业也涉及很多知识产权、创意创新等无形资产。这就是他们富有的原因。


海外网友阿莱克•科利的回答

Balaji Viswanathan clearly summarized most aspects. I want to give another small example.

Balaji Viswanathan清楚地总结了大部分方面。我想再举一个小例子。

The following is a case study: this is how a typical manufacturing company occupies an advantageous position in the industrial chain.

以下是一个案例研究:这就是典型的制造公司如何占据产业链的优势地位。


 

In addition to manufacturers and customers, you will find that there are two companies involved. These two are "process licensors" and "third-party inspectors".

除了制造商和客户,你会发现还有两家公司参与其中。这两个就是“工艺许可方”和“第三方检验员”。

Now, customers can be anyone who has a lot of money to invest in. Government, private enterprises such as Reliance or PPP (Public Private Partnership). Because this is a major technology investment project that will ultimately provide services to the majority of users (we are not aware of the direct impact of the processing plant, but looking around, you will find that almost everything around you was once part of the processing plant), so the transaction is not as simple as that of customers to suppliers.

现在,客户可以是任何有大量资金可投资的人。政府、像Reliance或PPP(公私伙伴关系)这样的私营企业。由于这是一个重大的技术投资项目,最终将为广大用户提供服务(我们没有意识到加工厂的直接影响,但环顾四周,你会发现你周围的几乎所有东西都曾经是加工厂的一部分),因此交易并不像客户对供应商那样简单。

Process licensors (such as KBR, Snaprogetti, Haldor Tops ø e, Toyo Engineering, etc.) have the technical know-how for the actual operation of the plant. Through strict research and development, they have become masters of existing technology and have patents. Therefore, anyone who wants to build a processing plant (fertilizer or oil refinery) must go there. In layman's words, they are the consultants of the whole matter. They will tell you what is the safe working ability and the overall specification of the equipment, and ultimately they will ensure the work of the unit.

工艺许可方(如KBR、Snamprogetti、Haldor Topsøe、Toyo Engineering等)拥有工厂实际运行的技术诀窍。通过严格的研发,他们已成为现有工艺的大师,并拥有专利。因此,任何想要建造加工厂(化肥厂或炼油厂)的人都必须去他们那里。用外行的话来说,他们是整个事情的顾问。他们会告诉你什么是安全工作能力,设备的总体规格等,最终他们会保证机组的工作。

Because they accepted the guarantee, which is their final license to the equipment manufacturer. They list the company's name and give it to the customer. Most of the time, customers do not deal directly with manufacturers. The order is placed by the process licensor. Why? Because when you provide equipment, you are responsible for providing on-site support. The company with ASME "R" seal can only repair for the third party manufacturer. Otherwise, it is the manufacturer's job. Nobody likes to repair. PL knows who is a good manufacturer.

因为,他们接受了保证,这是他们对设备制造商的最后许可。他们列出公司的名字,并将其交给客户。大多数时候,客户不会直接与制造商打交道。下单的是流程许可方。为什么?因为当您提供设备时,您有责任提供现场支持。拥有ASME“R”印章的公司只能为第三方制造商进行维修。否则,这是制造商的工作。没有人喜欢修理,PL知道谁是好的制造商。

The manufacturer works with PL to carry out detailed engineering design, manufacture and deliver the equipment. In between, the quality test is conducted by TPI. In some cases, TPI and PL are the same.

制造商与PL一起进行详细工程设计,制造设备并交付。在这两者之间,质量测试由TPI(国际顶尖的服务外包咨询公司)进行。在某些情况下,TPI和PL是相同的。

Now, in the whole case, who do you think is the control of the project? Who will make the most profit.

现在,在整个案例中,你认为谁是项目的控制权?谁将获得最大利润。

Facts have proved that almost all PL companies are Western companies, and only a few companies such as Japan Toyo Engineering. In addition to acting as PL, they sometimes act as EPC (engineering, procurement and construction) companies, thus greatly increasing profits.

事实证明,几乎所有的PL都是西方公司,只有少数像日本东洋工程这样的公司。除了作为PL,他们有时还充当EPC(工程、采购和施工)公司,从而大幅增加利润。

The only reason is that work outsourcing in Asian countries is due to cheap labor. Because most of these projects are of one kind, the automation is very limited, and the process becomes labor-intensive.

唯一的原因是,亚洲国家的工作外包是因为廉价劳动力。因为,这些项目大多是一种,自动化非常有限,流程变得劳动密集。

The second case is raw materials (such as plates and forgings). These are mainly imported from Europe. Material research and development is a technology-intensive process, mainly carried out in Europe. South Korea is slowly entering this field, but compared with its western counterparts, their quality is not very good.

第二种情况是原材料(如板材和锻件)。这些主要是从欧洲进口的。材料研发是一个技术密集型过程,主要在欧洲进行。韩国正在慢慢进入这一领域,但与西方同行相比,他们的质量并不是很好。

I hope this can answer your question!

希望这能回答您的问题!


 

网友杰克•梅嫩德斯的回答

Western countries have banking industry, cutting-edge technology, and stocks of the largest and most profitable multinational companies. The "other places" engaged in manufacturing and production are earning peanut money at the bottom of the value chain, engaging in cheap, stupid and dirty (also known as pollution) labor. This is the world order we live in, and the status quo that the vested interests of Western countries need to be maintained. If necessary, military forces can even be used.

西方国家拥有银行业,拥有尖端技术,拥有最大和最赚钱的跨国公司的股票。从事制造和生产的“其他地方”正在价值链的底层赚取花生钱,从事廉价、愚蠢和肮脏(又称污染)的劳动力。这是我们所处的世界秩序,也是西方国家既得利益需要维护的现状,如果需要,甚至可以动用军事力量。


 

The West has all the tricks. Knowledge is wealth and knowledge is power. Knowledge can be converted into investment to create wealth, and wealth can be converted into more investment to invest in any profitable field in the world. More investment generates more wealth, and more wealth can be invested in research to generate more knowledge.

西方拥有所有的诀窍,知识就是财富,知识就是力量。知识可以转化为创造财富的投资,财富可以转化为更多的投资,投入到世界上任何有利可图的领域。更多的投资产生更多的财富,更多的财富可以投入研究,产生更多的知识。

It is not because they do not know how to manufacture that the western countries let most of their manufacturing take place in other regions such as Asia, Africa and Latin America; But because they know exactly what must be done (precisely define the requirements) and how to do it (design involving major research and development), and choose a low-cost place to accept orders, such as heating this x%, y%, bending its shape, coloring, and then sending us something. (I know this is too simplistic, but you should understand this)

西方国家让大部分制造业发生在亚非拉等其他地区,并不是因为他们不知道如何制造;但因为他们确切地知道必须做什么(精确地定义需求)以及如何做(涉及重大研发的设计),并且选择了一个低成本的地方,知道接受订单,比如把这个的x%,y%,加热它,弯曲它的形状,上色,然后给我们发出来的东西。(我知道这过于简化,但你应该明白这一点)

You see, this requires a set of skills to accept orders and execute them neatly without confusion. That's why China got a lot of such jobs, not Uganda. However, this kind of skill is still at the bottom of the "skill triangle". What is important is knowledge, which is how to conceive products, design products, and figure out the methods of repeatedly manufacturing products on the assembly line.

你看,这需要一套技能来接受命令,并在不混乱的情况下整齐地执行。这就是为什么中国得到了很多这样的工作,而不是乌干达。但这种技能仍然处于“技能三角”的底部,重要的是知识,这些知识是如何构思产品、设计产品并想出在装配线上重复制造产品的方法的。

As a result, the manufacturing of low-value and high-output equipment has been transferred to low-income countries. These devices fill our streets and hypermarkets, so they have a high reputation. But there are still many manufacturing industries in the West. It is mainly a complex and high-value equipment purchased by companies rather than individuals, which most people have never seen. If you look at the trade balance of manufactured goods, you will find that developed countries produce a large number of products you do not know.

所以结果是,低价值、高产量设备的制造已经转移到低收入国家。这些设备充斥着我们的大街和大卖场,因此具有很高的知名度。但西方仍有很多制造业。它主要是由公司而非个人购买的复杂、高价值的设备,大多数人从未见过。如果你看一下制成品的贸易差额,你会发现发达国家生产了大量你根本不知道的产品。

Then, as others have pointed out, there is also intellectual property. It is easy to be fascinated by physical objects. But if a writer wrote a book and printed it overseas, who would add the most value? Is it a writer who has created some unique works, or an overseas worker who supervises an almost automatic printing machine?

然后,正如其他人所指出的,还有知识产权方面。很容易被食物迷住。但是,如果一位作家写了一本书,而且是在海外印刷的,那么谁增加的价值最大呢?是创作了一些独特作品的作家,还是监督一家几乎全自动印刷机的海外工人?

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