2006 (217)
2007 (225)
2008 (142)
2010 (96)
2011 (174)
2013 (239)
2014 (120)
2017 (1)
2023 (348)
2024 (102)
2025 (4)
从1842年至1949年，全球人口从11亿增加到25亿，增加了128%， 而同时间中国人口只增加了1.2亿，增加了30%。从1949年至1962年，即到三年灾害以后，中国人口增加了1.2亿，增加了23%， 即建国后到三年灾害以后，中国人口的增加等于鸦片战争以后100年的人口增加，而1949年至1962年全球人口增加了21%，略低于中国人口增长率。现在有人炒作三年灾害的非正常死亡人数，并以此推论新中国建国后是中国历史最黑暗的年代，这种推论完全不顾历史事实。百年屈辱才是中国非正常死亡更高的年代。
|
年份
|
中国人口
|
世界人口
|
中国增长
|
世界增长
|
|
1842
|
416118200
|
1123472981
|
|
|
|
1949
|
541670000
|
2562539670
|
125551800
|
1439066689
|
|
1962
|
665770000
|
3109479912
|
124100000
|
546940242
|
http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/special/china_1950_population.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_pop-people-population&date=1962
http://www.cpirc.org.cn/en/totpope.htm
我现在知道了，原来你在这写评论时只看标题不看文章内容的，怪不得标题那么重要。农民工进城要努力适应老市民的生活习惯。城里上帖时尚“标题党”，否则我们怎么有缘分在此讨论呢？再说了，我文章也不算太走题，文章本意就是针对那些把三年困难死亡人数用来证明整个新中国不合法的言论，如果不是那些把三年困难死亡人数上纲上线的言论，我还真没用必要写这篇文章。
怪不得我反反复复解释文章内容而对这里很多评论起不了一点作用。有些人写的评论比我文章还长，就是不看我的文章。
"所谓三年灾害非正常死亡究竟有多严重？"
"哈哈，没人强迫你用三年比百年呀？"
speechless
哈哈，没人强迫你用三年比百年呀？是我在比较百年屈辱和新中国呀。你可以写文章比较三年和改革开放吗。没人拦着你。我是说新中国使得中国摆脱百年屈辱，是进步。三年困难是不好，但三年困难不能说明新中国比百年屈辱差。我是说那些炒作三年问题的人想以此说明新中国是历史上最黑暗的时代是不符合事实的。
您写了三年对比小康的文章后一定来告诉一声啊。如果有人强迫你三年对比百年，不许你写三年对比小康的文章，告诉我一声，我一定为您打抱不平。
[看看这slow_quick这么说：“你的标题应改为“3年人祸究竟有多严重？”。从你给出的数据，结论应该是非常严重。比“百年屈辱”要严重的多！”三分之一成瘾君子的材料就在链接中。就算是三年人祸，这和南京大屠杀和鸦片战争也是不同的。我不知道这个slow_quick是什么人，他是宁愿要百年屈辱也不要新中国的。]
"百年屈辱,3年人祸", those are not something you want one over the other. They are bad historical periods and you don't want any of them to repeat. 新中国 is not equal to 3年人祸, as United States is not equal to its Civil War. You are obviously switching concepts.
Who I am is not important. The important thing is whether the rate of damage caused by "3年人祸" is actually higher than the things you try to compare with (unfortunately it is). Of course "3年人祸", which happened in peaceful years, should not be compared with war period but it is you who ask people to compare them. Let the numbers talk if you want to compare. Do not question other people's intention when try to debate the facts. You brought the subject so you better be able to defend your logic and conclusion.
I don't understand why you force people to choose between "百年屈辱" and "3年人祸". Why can't we choose between "3年人祸" and something happy, such as "三自一包", "改革开放", "小康社会"?
这不就是计划生育嘛,是好事,比后来强制性的计划生育文明多了.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2heoeNGYmY&feature=related
不明白为何一旦与西方有关就是屈辱、亡国啊？好象西方国家全是别人的奴才！可共产党今天的经济基本全是洋人的东西，什么私有化、股份制、股票交易等，况且今天的改革从农村开始，而农村是安徽小岗村农民自发开始滴。你告诉大家土共有那条理论能用？
Some people compare Three Years of Disaster to Naking Massacre, and say Communist China kills more people than Naking Massacre. Such a comparing is totally wrong. It was true that many people died during Cultural Revolution and Communist government was responsible for that. Chinese people and Communist Party have all admitted that. Just like every year many people died of gun crime in US. US people and government admit the fact and everybody know that it’s the reasonability of US government to reduce the gun crimes. Saying Communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre, however, is just the same as saying democratic America kills more American than 911 attact. As every year about 10 thousands of American was killed in gun crimes.
The difference between Culture Revelation as well as three years of disaster and Nanking massacre is just the same as between US gun crimes and 911. One is due to social instability and bad government policies, and other is due to foreign invasion. During Culture Revolution, the death rate is much higher for government officials and CCP officials than the rate in other group. Saying communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre is just the same as saying Democratic America is killing more America than 911. During three years of disaster, many poor Chinese died of hunger, Chinese people know that, and Chinese government know that, and they all know something is not correct, just like US people know that so many gun crimes in US is not correct. There are more poor people died in three years of disaster than government officials is just like there are more poor people fall as gun crimes victims in US. There must be some communists died during three years of disasters, and many who died have relatives as communists. As we know, during civil war in China, it was the most poor who joint the Communist Party. 1959 was only 10 year after civil war and majority of Chinese population was still in countryside. At that time, most of government and party officials were come from the countryside and come from poor families. If there are someone who wants to killed Chinese people intentionally during 1959-1961 and Cultural Revolution, then it should be United States and Soviet Union. They succeed in putting economic sanction on China, which led to humanitarian disasters indirectly.
Communist China is bad. Chinese know it. But Chinese are not foolish enough to overthrow it, as they know that the present China is still the best among all other forms of governments they tried since Opium War. Since Opium War, Chinese tried democracy under Sun Yet-sent but all the Western countries, including democratic ones, just support local war lords in China to extent their state interest at the expense of Chinese democracy and at the expense of Chinese people. That’s why Dr. Sun turned to Soviet and welcomed Communist in China.
In the last a few decades, poverty population reduced all over the world, and China made the number one contribution in reducing world poverty. Many poor peasants of yesterday are rich entrepreneurs today in China, thanks to market economy adapted by Communist China. Regardless the label put on China as communist or capitalist, the present Chinese government works for the better of China and the world.
看了。有意思。
http://bbs.wenxuecity.com/culture/445614.html
嗨，就是这几个网路消防队的马甲，你看着吧，我这标题一下首页以后他们就销声匿迹了。三千多读者，不就这几个马甲忙着給读者消毒吗。他们根本不是来讨论问题的，只是来扣帽子打棍子，文革都过了了，这套手法还没见识过？你点点这些马甲的博客或者搜索一些各个论坛，他们从来没有发表过自己的主见的文章，只是一帮言论打手。他们在文学城里实施言论暴力。
我说这里以前是一片荒草，如今是一片茂密的树林了。他们说，你怎么能否认林子里这棵死去的树木呢？这棵树木但年死得多惨呀，树根到树干都腐烂了，这棵死去的树木怎么能比荒草好呢？他们的有色眼镜就只能看到一棵枯腐的树木，然后闭着眼睛怀念那无可挽回的荒草。
我们见证了中国摆脱百年屈辱走向繁荣的历史。而一些人被个人恩怨蒙住了眼睛抛弃了民族大义。谁能没有一点恩怨？我也是经历过三年困难时期和文革的人了，把那点恩怨极端到反华的歇斯底里是可悲的。
简单化一下：他们是不是说因为共党治下老百姓受苦，所以做亡国奴比跟着共党独立自主自力更生好些？能更有吃有喝有“尊严”？
这就太一厢情愿自作多情了吧？
别说当时（百年积弱，国际封锁--就是要想搞邓公的资本主义也搞不成）就算现在开门揖盗，把洋大人们（中国太大，估计一国洋大人吃不下，得瓜分）请进来统治中国，老百姓也并不会因此就过上更好的有吃有喝有尊严的日子哇！
珠三角地区的三来一补，来料加工，等模式，美国在海地都实施过。不同的是，海地不是新民主主义革命，不是共产党领导，海地是听美国话的乖孩子（那些不民主不人权的海地政府一个一个地被美国推翻了，剩下的都是民主人权的海地政府了），结果和珠三角大不一样。珠三角农民工苦不苦？苦。但还有盼头。海地人心都死了，不要说海地人懒而且野蛮，他们已经没有任何希望了！
中国善良的人为农民工维权，批评政府，我都支持。但是，借助外国势力向政府施压我是反对的。我从来不对西方人权民主能够解救中国人的苦难抱有任何幻想。西方要真心帮助中国人权民主，就把他们用于煽动颜色革命的钱作为奖学金请中国学生到美国常青藤学校学习法律和新闻。不要把钱花在XX功之类身上。
我没有否认1959－1962年饥荒的严重性。但是，中国崛起却是是新中国成立以后才成为可能。三年死亡三千万的人数是中国的人口杂志学术文章提出来的，中国是面对现实，而且中国正在改变这种贫困的面貌。但这，以三年死亡人数为日本大屠杀开脱、为鸦片战争洗刷罪名是无济于事的。三年困难时期，大人饿得水肿，我们家农村亲戚不少，这些都是经历过来的，我也挖过野菜，现在还认得瓜子菜。都是情况人人知道，我就没听说政府决定要饿死农民，共产党和农民有仇的事情。饿死的农民最多，共产党也是农民最多。都是想中国人死的，是美苏经济封锁和蒋介石反攻大陆。U-2飞机飞入中国领空是经常的新闻。我这些数据历史数据摆在这里。有数据来源。你们宁愿希望中国再遭受一次鸦片战争，而后你们再来地二次太平天国运动，对吧？太平天国，就是崇拜西方文化，搞个拜上帝教，以为西方人鸦片战争来帮助穷人消灭清妖了。知道太平天国建立在那里吗？长江中下游。知道都是长江是谁控制吗？英美军舰在吴淞口和武昌。太平天国和鸦片战争无关？没有鸦片战争的不平等条约允许西方到中国传教，就没有洪秀全去基督教。把中国变成瘾君子的东亚病夫，这是多残酷的历史事件，这是大规模种族屠杀。
看看这slow_quick这么说：“你的标题应改为“3年人祸究竟有多严重？”。从你给出的数据，结论应该是非常严重。比“百年屈辱”要严重的多！”三分之一成瘾君子的材料就在链接中。就算是三年人祸，这和南京大屠杀和鸦片战争也是不同的。我不知道这个slow_quick是什么人，他是宁愿要百年屈辱也不要新中国的。
最近网上看到的捂眼睛文章：“今日的中国已经不再有亡国灭种的危机感和焦虑感，我们走出了那个一阵阵发冷汗的时代，不再说胡话，回归正常状态。危机感固然消退了，但是百年国耻留下的“受害人情结”仍然存在。这种情结让我们对他国总是心存疑虑、愤愤不平，不是觉得人人试图合起伙来害我，就是觉得谁都对不起我”。
链接出处
如今人大教授出来消除国人受害情节，说是怕国人对西方心存疑虑。国人只是心存疑虑，而西方人对中国的“威胁”是从上到下深信不疑的。西方明说不卖中国武器，不卖中国高科技，人家不是疑虑问题，人家认准了中国是威胁。华盛顿广场两侧有两个坟场，一个韩战、一个越战，这是人家的首都，是全球游客到华盛顿都知道的地方，人家纪念什么？记住什么？第一次到加拿大国会参观时候，在国会内看到一处纪念韩战死亡军人。人家纪念韩战，放到庙堂最高处天天念叨，而我们的教授却出来捂国人的眼睛。
美国选举了，民情可畏，把世界一切罪恶都归罪于中国，美国失业是中国人权记录邪恶的结果，美国带领的西方军事力量团团围着中国，因为他们深信中国是邪恶的根源，这是全球最大的军事机器。但是，人大教授却担心国人对包围中国的这个最大的军事机器心存疑虑。
美国总统竞选支点之一就是老兵待遇，老兵待遇的合理性就是韩战越战的正义性，围堵中国的高尚与正义是美国人坚信不疑的社会现实。
不要以为中国放弃一党政体以后、中国推翻共产党以后，西方就会不围剿中国。历史摆在那里，西方瓜分中国的时候中国还没用共产党，只是人大教授自己捂着眼睛不算，还想捂国人的眼睛。人大教授要大家忘记百年屈辱，而西方一刻都没忘记是新中国搅黄了他们瓜分中国的美宴。西方嘴里说反对中国专制独裁，实际上它们要的是一个与西方列强一起瓜分中国人民血汗的利益集团掌权，辛亥革命后它们选择了袁世凯抛弃孙中山，后来选择南京而抛弃延安，然后是选择台北抛弃北京。今天它们要似乎左右逢源，即可颜色革命使得中国共产党变色，有可推翻共产党直接肢解中国。中国已经到了历史抉择的关键时刻了，结果出来个人大教授捂国人的眼睛。
甲午战争日本搭上全球列强瓜分世界的最后一班车，甲午战争日本要中国赔偿巨额战争赔款。这些赔款，是清廷一时拿不出手的，由列强贷款給中国赔偿，从那以后中国收刮民脂民膏的税收就作为战争赔款的债务的本利每月在上海交割分配到列强手中，中国工业化原始积累的途径由此中断。这个甲午战争赔款成为日本工业化的原始积累，日本从经济危机中一战而摆脱危机进而跃居列强。这个甲午战争赔款利滚利越滚越大，加上庚子赔款，中国民族资产阶级的民主革命和中国工业化现代化道路被堵死。帝制推翻了，北洋政府继承旧债，北洋政府被推翻了，蒋介石政府继续继承这旧债，所以中国工业化遥遥无期。是毛泽东建立的新中国不承认这些晚清旧债，才使得中国得以在建国后自力更生打下工业化的基础。现在妖化毛泽东的人拿中国工业化原始积累的城乡差别说事，是因为毛泽东阻止了西方把蒋介石收刮的民脂民膏分发給列强作为债务偿还。西方收债时中国百姓再苦也是“法治社会”， 一个维持甲午战争后列强利益均分的“国际法”。自毛泽东不受这个“国际法”的束缚以后，中国从此背上了没有法制的恶名。
甲午战争赔款是典型的日本打败中国列强利益均沾的案例。这个利益均沾是通过金融手段落实的，就是列强贷款給清廷赔款日本。列强把清廷海关关银抵押贷款还不够，还用盐税抵押，还不够，还用厘金抵押，也就是说，中国的税收基本都给了列强，这也就是为什么义和团反帝而不反清，因为老百姓交的苛捐杂税都到了洋人手里。这也是为什么慈禧支持义和团反洋人，实在是清廷代替洋人收中国人的税的。
1895年俄法与清廷签订第一个甲午赔款贷款，为期36年的4亿金法郎贷款，同时附带俄国在东北铁路路权和法国在云南的铁路路权（这就是列强瓜分中国势力范围的一步，记得大革命时期一副列强瓜分中国的漫画图就是这个范围）。1896年3月14日英德与清廷签订第二笔甲午战争赔款贷款，1600万英镑，以清朝海关做抵押，其中850万英镑为日军驻扎威海卫的军费。1897年第三笔甲午赔款贷款由德法俄比提供，又是1600万英镑，用盐税和厘金抵押，但是俄国要求东北权益太多，法国要中国缅甸铁路权益，列强无法妥协，拖至1898年，由英德提供贷款，为期45年，这个贷款条件是德国占领胶州湾，法国占领湛江，俄国租借辽东半岛，英国租借香港新界99年。三笔甲午赔款贷款总值4300万英镑，几年后又有庚子赔款总值6750万英镑。袁世凯上台后有个民国二年大借款，实际上是把前清许多铁路贷款的旧债重组由新政权继续还旧债。后来北洋政府参战第一次世界大战，俄国十月革命不要这些债权，德国战败（21条把胶州湾割給日本）协约国看在中国派劳工参加欧洲战争的面上，免除部分庚子赔款，但是，免除部分不由中国支配，由列强支配用于中国，就是建立了清华大学和香港大学。
这些债务连本带利每月在上海汇丰银行交割，由于银价下跌，按照汇率还英镑实际还的银子要比日本要的赔款多很多，而且还要交汇丰债务管理费用。
如今西方经济危机了，它们并没有放弃以战争夺取中国财富的侥幸心理，它们还要再来一次甲午战争割中国一块肉，然后在中国伤口上放上水蛭，让中国永恒的淌血。所以，有了美日安全条约适合钓鱼岛的美国官方宣示。当今国际战争就是强权政治，拥有最大军事机器的美国就是强权政治中的强盗，而人大教授却担心国人疑虑。前一段也有人大教授支持袁腾飞的中国正经历两千年最黑暗的历史阶段的谬论。今天中国周边的军事势态就是百年屈辱历史延续下来的，当年压迫中国人民的列强还念念不忘瓜分中国的旧梦，并以军事乃至颜色革命等各种手段来妄图实现这个旧梦，而人大教授竟然出来捂着国人的眼睛。
甲午战争以后，中国旧民主主义革命的路子就被堵死了，所以才有了孙中山的联俄联共、扶助工农的三大政策，才有了毛泽东领导的新民主主义革命。毛泽东不承认一切旧债，把列强放在中国伤口上的水蛭拔掉了，才有了今天中国工业化和现代化的可能。什么人民币汇率问题，什么钓鱼岛问题，什么南沙问题，我们都看到西方妄图再重创中国，再在中国伤口上放上水蛭，再次打断中国发展进程，再次阻止中国发展，再来一次甲午战争。如果国人再次捂上眼睛，甲午战争的历史就会重演。
我以一个亲历者呼叫，在历史事实已很清楚的现在，别再以
假象来欺骗年轻人了。
请读者看新华社高级记者杨继绳老先生写的字字血泪的‘墓碑‘一书。网上可找到。这是真实可信的。
也有人详细比较了50年代中国各省人口统计资料，才得出三年所谓非正常死亡人数3700多万人，河南省最多，因为河南书记刘芝浦虚报粮产最多。
真不明白楼主会只写1962年的不写1959年的人口统计数据来推论。
“三年人祸（1958-1961）与百年屈辱，哪个更严重”？
我们用每年人口减少的百分比为标准：
版主：“1842年第一次鸦片战争结束的时候，中国人口是四亿一千六百万；到了1881年，中国人口剩下三亿六千九百万，...”。
[据“维基百科”，此阶段人口减少4.700千万是由于太平天国、捻军及境内的穆斯林等起事祸乱，没鸦片什么事。
http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh/太平天国]
39年减少4.700千万，4.700千万/4.16亿=11.298%, 每年减少约0.307%。
据版主自己提供的数据
http://www.cpirc.org.cn/en/totpope.htm
1959年中国人口6.7207亿，1961年为6.5859亿。两年减少1.348千万,每年减少约1.008%。
这里只比较人口减少,非正常死亡当然要多的多。
你的标题应改为“3年人祸究竟有多严重？”。从你给出的数据看，结论应该是非常严重。比“百年屈辱”要严重的多！
国人只是最近才被告知刘主席说了“三分天灾、七分人祸”的话。如果国人又再次被捂上眼睛告知这是“3年自然灾害”，而且被告知“3年自然灾害”并不严重，这个“灾害”就会重演。
美化中国内部的严重失误（不管是哪族哪党）只会带给你相反的结果。
"Caused" is defferent from "killing". US gorvernment cannot eliminate gun crime just as China gorvernment cannot control themselves in the Cultual Reverlution. You are using more suitable word "Caused" than the other who use "killed". "kill" implies intention. US gorvernment intented to reduse gun crime but gun crimes still continured. China government intended to get rid of proverty ?Chinese people but at some years got the opposite result. And it is ture that gun crime kills more US citizents than 911 attack.
gun crimes is not caused by US gov, culture revolution is caused/directed by Chinese gov, you are not comparing the same stuff.
It is true, communist party caused more harm than Nanking massacre. For Nanking massacre, we know it is enemies who are responsible, for culture revolution, Chinese people got confused, not only do we suffer the pain, but also we are lost completely, no one to trust, motherland, comrades, friends, relatives, who can we trust, as a nation, we are still struggling.
我外祖父母是在沦陷区日本统治下饿死的。
Some people compare Three Years of Disaster to Naking Massacre, and say Communist China kills more people than Naking Massacre. Such a comparing is totally wrong. It was true that many people died during Cultural Revolution and Communist government was responsible for that. Chinese people and Communist Party have all admitted that. Just like every year many people died of gun crime in US. US people and government admit the fact and everybody know that it’s the reasonability of US government to reduce the gun crimes. Saying Communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre, however, is just the same as saying democratic America kills more American than 911 attact. As every year about 10 thousands of American was killed in gun crimes.
The difference between Culture Revelation as well as three years of disaster and Nanking massacre is just the same as between US gun crimes and 911. One is due to social instability and bad government policies, and other is due to foreign invasion. During Culture Revolution, the death rate is much higher for government officials and CCP officials than the rate in other group. Saying communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre is just the same as saying Democratic America is killing more America than 911. During three years of disaster, many poor Chinese died of hunger, Chinese people know that, and Chinese government know that, and they all know something is not correct, just like US people know that so many gun crimes in US is not correct. There are more poor people died in three years of disaster than government officials is just like there are more poor people fall as gun crimes victims in US. There must be some communists died during three years of disasters, and many who died have relatives as communists. As we know, during civil war in China, it was the most poor who joint the Communist Party. 1959 was only 10 year after civil war and majority of Chinese population was still in countryside. At that time, most of government and party officials were come from the countryside and come from poor families. If there are someone who wants to killed Chinese people intentionally during 1959-1961 and Cultural Revolution, then it should be United States and Soviet Union. They succeed in putting economic sanction on China, which led to humanitarian disasters indirectly.
Communist China is bad. Chinese know it. But Chinese are not foolish enough to overthrow it, as they know that the present China is still the best among all other forms of governments they tried since Opium War. Since Opium War, Chinese tried democracy under Sun Yet-sent but all the Western countries, including democratic ones, just support local war lords in China to extent their state interest at the expense of Chinese democracy and at the expense of Chinese people. That’s why Dr. Sun turned to Soviet and welcomed Communist in China.
In the last a few decades, poverty population reduced all over the world, and China made the number one contribution in reducing world poverty. Many poor peasants of yesterday are rich entrepreneurs today in China, thanks to market economy adapted by Communist China. Regardless the label put on China as communist or capitalist, the present Chinese government works for the better of China and the world.
Some people compare Three Years of Disaster to Naking Massacre, and say Communist China kills more people than Naking Massacre. Such a comparing is totally wrong. It was true that many people died during Cultural Revolution and Communist government was responsible for that. Chinese people and Communist Party have all admitted that. Just like every year many people died of gun crime in US. US people and government admit the fact and everybody know that it’s the reasonability of US government to reduce the gun crimes. Saying Communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre, however, is just the same as saying democratic America kills more American than 911 attact. As every year about 10 thousands of American was killed in gun crimes.
The difference between Culture Revelation as well as three years of disaster and Nanking massacre is just the same as between US gun crimes and 911. One is due to social instability and bad government policies, and other is due to foreign invasion. During Culture Revolution, the death rate is much higher for government officials and CCP officials than the rate in other group. Saying communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre is just the same as saying Democratic America is killing more America than 911. During three years of disaster, many poor Chinese died of hunger, Chinese people know that, and Chinese government know that, and they all know something is not correct, just like US people know that so many gun crimes in US is not correct. There are more poor people died in three years of disaster than government officials is just like there are more poor people fall as gun crimes victims in US. There must be some communists died during three years of disasters, and many who died have relatives as communists. As we know, during civil war in China, it was the most poor who joint the Communist Party. 1959 was only 10 year after civil war and majority of Chinese population was still in countryside. At that time, most of government and party officials were come from the countryside and come from poor families. If there are someone who wants to killed Chinese people intentionally during 1959-1961 and Cultural Revolution, then it should be United States and Soviet Union. They succeed in putting economic sanction on China, which led to humanitarian disasters indirectly.
Communist China is bad. Chinese know it. But Chinese are not foolish enough to overthrow it, as they know that the present China is still the best among all other forms of governments they tried since Opium War. Since Opium War, Chinese tried democracy under Sun Yet-sent but all the Western countries, including democratic ones, just support local war lords in China to extent their state interest at the expense of Chinese democracy and at the expense of Chinese people. That’s why Dr. Sun turned to Soviet and welcomed Communist in China.
In the last a few decades, poverty population reduced all over the world, and China made the number one contribution in reducing world poverty. Many poor peasants of yesterday are rich entrepreneurs today in China, thanks to market economy adapted by Communist China. Regardless the label put on China as communist or capitalist, the present Chinese government works for the better of China and the world.
“1842年第一次鸦片战争结束的时候，中国人口是四亿一千六百万；到了1881年，中国人口剩下三亿六千九百万，而且其中三分之一吸鸦片成瘾。”
据“维基百科”，此阶段人口减少4.700万是由于太平天国、捻军及境内的穆斯林等起事祸乱，没鸦片什么事。
http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh/太平天国
你的“三分之一吸鸦片成瘾”数据是从那来的？
据唵啊吽自己提供的数据
http://www.cpirc.org.cn/en/totpope.htm
1959年中国人口6.7207亿，1961年为6.5859亿。两年减少了1348万,每年减少1.008%。照此速度减下去，39年（比照1842～1881）会减少2.1935亿。难道这个人祸比不上1842～1881年吗？
你的标题应改为“3年人祸究竟有多严重？”。从你给出的数据，结论应该是非常严重。比“百年屈辱”要严重的多！
向敢于说真话的你和你母亲致敬。
我至今还清清楚楚地记得当时挨饿的情景。
哪里光是饿死了三千万人，三反五反，镇压反革命，反右派，四清，文化大革命，死了多少人？
唵啊吽听起来像是佛教信徒。就这个笔名，文化大革命中不批斗才怪。
鸦片战争尤其残酷，能够把世界人口最多的国家的三分之一人毒害成瘾君子，三分之一人，把小孩老人妇女都算入作为基数得到的三分之一，实际上就是把中国变成了“东亚病夫”。
瘾君子使得鸦片消费变成刚性消费，使得鸦片贸易成为西方暴利贸易，如此中国财富大量外流，在列强强制的鸦片贸易下，我不知道有什么好政府能够使得中国不贫困，不战乱。而最终使得中国摆脱鸦片战争以来的战乱贫困的困局的，就是新中国。
请问你是哪国人？为什么用的汉字怪怪的？
共产党饿死了三千丌人
之前内战起码死一千丌人，光共匪围长春就饿死六十丌人。
抗日死几千丌。
至于其他欧美国家，在中国没杀几个人
Some people compare Three Years of Disaster to Naking Massacre, and say Communist China kills more people than Naking Massacre. Such a comparing is totally wrong. It was true that many people died during Cultural Revolution and Communist government was responsible for that. Chinese people and Communist Party have all admitted that. Just like every year many people died of gun crime in US. US people and government admit the fact and everybody know that it’s the reasonability of US government to reduce the gun crimes. Saying Communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre, however, is just the same as saying democratic America kills more American than 911 attact. As every year about 10 thousands of American was killed in gun crimes.
The difference between Culture Revelation as well as three years of disaster and Nanking massacre is just the same as between US gun crimes and 911. One is due to social instability and bad government policies, and other is due to foreign invasion. During Culture Revolution, the death rate is much higher for government officials and CCP officials than the rate in other group. Saying communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre is just the same as saying Democratic America is killing more America than 911. During three years of disaster, many poor Chinese died of hunger, Chinese people know that, and Chinese government know that, and they all know something is not correct, just like US people know that so many gun crimes in US is not correct. There are more poor people died in three years of disaster than government officials is just like there are more poor people fall as gun crimes victims in US. There must be some communists died during three years of disasters, and many who died have relatives as communists. As we know, during civil war in China, it was the most poor who joint the Communist Party. 1959 was only 10 year after civil war and majority of Chinese population was still in countryside. At that time, most of government and party officials were come from the countryside and come from poor families. If there are someone who wants to killed Chinese people intentionally during 1959-1961 and Cultural Revolution, then it should be United States and Soviet Union. They succeed in putting economic sanction on China, which led to humanitarian disasters indirectly.
Communist China is bad. Chinese know it. But Chinese are not foolish enough to overthrow it, as they know that the present China is still the best among all other forms of governments they tried since Opium War. Since Opium War, Chinese tried democracy under Sun Yet-sent but all the Western countries, including democratic ones, just support local war lords in China to extent their state interest at the expense of Chinese democracy and at the expense of Chinese people. That’s why Dr. Sun turned to Soviet and welcomed Communist in China.
In the last a few decades, poverty population reduced all over the world, and China made the number one contribution in reducing world poverty. Many poor peasants of yesterday are rich entrepreneurs today in China, thanks to market economy adapted by Communist China. Regardless the label put on China as communist or capitalist, the present Chinese government works for the better of China and the world.
Some people compare Three Years of Disaster to Naking Massacre, and say Communist China kills more people than Naking Massacre. Such a comparing is totally wrong. It was true that many people died during Cultural Revolution and Communist government was responsible for that. Chinese people and Communist Party have all admitted that. Just like every year many people died of gun crime in US. US people and government admit the fact and everybody know that it’s the reasonability of US government to reduce the gun crimes. Saying Communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre, however, is just the same as saying democratic America kills more American than 911 attact. As every year about 10 thousands of American was killed in gun crimes.
The difference between Culture Revelation as well as three years of disaster and Nanking massacre is just the same as between US gun crimes and 911. One is due to social instability and bad government policies, and other is due to foreign invasion. During Culture Revolution, the death rate is much higher for government officials and CCP officials than the rate in other group. Saying communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre is just the same as saying Democratic America is killing more America than 911. During three years of disaster, many poor Chinese died of hunger, Chinese people know that, and Chinese government know that, and they all know something is not correct, just like US people know that so many gun crimes in US is not correct. There are more poor people died in three years of disaster than government officials is just like there are more poor people fall as gun crimes victims in US. There must be some communists died during three years of disasters, and many who died have relatives as communists. As we know, during civil war in China, it was the most poor who joint the Communist Party. 1959 was only 10 year after civil war and majority of Chinese population was still in countryside. At that time, most of government and party officials were come from the countryside and come from poor families. If there are someone who wants to killed Chinese people intentionally during 1959-1961 and Cultural Revolution, then it should be United States and Soviet Union. They succeed in putting economic sanction on China, which led to humanitarian disasters indirectly.
Communist China is bad. Chinese know it. But Chinese are not foolish enough to overthrow it, as they know that the present China is still the best among all other forms of governments they tried since Opium War. Since Opium War, Chinese tried democracy under Sun Yet-sent but all the Western countries, including democratic ones, just support local war lords in China to extent their state interest at the expense of Chinese democracy and at the expense of Chinese people. That’s why Dr. Sun turned to Soviet and welcomed Communist in China.
In the last a few decades, poverty population reduced all over the world, and China made the number one contribution in reducing world poverty. Many poor peasants of yesterday are rich entrepreneurs today in China, thanks to market economy adapted by Communist China. Regardless the label put on China as communist or capitalist, the present Chinese government works for the better of China and the world.
你到底想说明什么问题?
如果说鸦片战争中国人民生活得比新中国差, 那关那三年什么事呢? 为什么标题和内容完全不关联呢?
如果你想说鸦片战争中国人民非正常死亡率比那三年高, 你又用的是1949-1962年的数据.
你是想说即使中国人非正常死亡率即使经过那三年高的非正常死亡还是生活得比鸦片战争时期好?
你确实应该被枪毙!
我妈那时只是个小科员, 凭什么要为你主子的罪恶负责?
再说一次, 你父母虽然不应该生了你, 但还是不应该被枪毙, 只有你这种渣滓才该被枪毙
链接出处
如今人大教授出来消除国人受害情节，说是怕国人对西方心存疑虑。国人只是心存疑虑，而西方人对中国的“威胁”是从上到下深信不疑的。西方明说不卖中国武器，不卖中国高科技，人家不是疑虑问题，人家认准了中国是威胁。华盛顿广场两侧有两个坟场，一个韩战、一个越战，这是人家的首都，是全球游客到华盛顿都知道的地方，人家纪念什么？记住什么？第一次到加拿大国会参观时候，在国会内看到一处纪念韩战死亡军人。人家纪念韩战，放到庙堂最高处天天念叨，而我们的教授却出来捂国人的眼睛。
美国选举了，民情可畏，把世界一切罪恶都归罪于中国，美国失业是中国人权记录邪恶的结果，美国带领的西方军事力量团团围着中国，因为他们深信中国是邪恶的根源，这是全球最大的军事机器。但是，人大教授却担心国人对包围中国的这个最大的军事机器心存疑虑。
美国总统竞选支点之一就是老兵待遇，老兵待遇的合理性就是韩战越战的正义性，围堵中国的高尚与正义是美国人坚信不疑的社会现实。
不要以为中国放弃一党政体以后、中国推翻共产党以后，西方就会不围剿中国。历史摆在那里，西方瓜分中国的时候中国还没用共产党，只是人大教授自己捂着眼睛不算，还想捂国人的眼睛。人大教授要大家忘记百年屈辱，而西方一刻都没忘记是新中国搅黄了他们瓜分中国的美宴。西方嘴里说反对中国专制独裁，实际上它们要的是一个与西方列强一起瓜分中国人民血汗的利益集团掌权，辛亥革命后它们选择了袁世凯抛弃孙中山，后来选择南京而抛弃延安，然后是选择台北抛弃北京。今天它们要似乎左右逢源，即可颜色革命使得中国共产党变色，有可推翻共产党直接肢解中国。中国已经到了历史抉择的关键时刻了，结果出来个人大教授捂国人的眼睛。
甲午战争日本搭上全球列强瓜分世界的最后一班车，甲午战争日本要中国赔偿巨额战争赔款。这些赔款，是清廷一时拿不出手的，由列强贷款給中国赔偿，从那以后中国收刮民脂民膏的税收就作为战争赔款的债务的本利每月在上海交割分配到列强手中，中国工业化原始积累的途径由此中断。这个甲午战争赔款成为日本工业化的原始积累，日本从经济危机中一战而摆脱危机进而跃居列强。这个甲午战争赔款利滚利越滚越大，加上庚子赔款，中国民族资产阶级的民主革命和中国工业化现代化道路被堵死。帝制推翻了，北洋政府继承旧债，北洋政府被推翻了，蒋介石政府继续继承这旧债，所以中国工业化遥遥无期。是毛泽东建立的新中国不承认这些晚清旧债，才使得中国得以在建国后自力更生打下工业化的基础。现在妖化毛泽东的人拿中国工业化原始积累的城乡差别说事，是因为毛泽东阻止了西方把蒋介石收刮的民脂民膏分发給列强作为债务偿还。西方收债时中国百姓再苦也是“法治社会”， 一个维持甲午战争后列强利益均分的“国际法”。自毛泽东不受这个“国际法”的束缚以后，中国从此背上了没有法制的恶名。
甲午战争赔款是典型的日本打败中国列强利益均沾的案例。这个利益均沾是通过金融手段落实的，就是列强贷款給清廷赔款日本。列强把清廷海关关银抵押贷款还不够，还用盐税抵押，还不够，还用厘金抵押，也就是说，中国的税收基本都给了列强，这也就是为什么义和团反帝而不反清，因为老百姓交的苛捐杂税都到了洋人手里。这也是为什么慈禧支持义和团反洋人，实在是清廷代替洋人收中国人的税的。
1895年俄法与清廷签订第一个甲午赔款贷款，为期36年的4亿金法郎贷款，同时附带俄国在东北铁路路权和法国在云南的铁路路权（这就是列强瓜分中国势力范围的一步，记得大革命时期一副列强瓜分中国的漫画图就是这个范围）。1896年3月14日英德与清廷签订第二笔甲午战争赔款贷款，1600万英镑，以清朝海关做抵押，其中850万英镑为日军驻扎威海卫的军费。1897年第三笔甲午赔款贷款由德法俄比提供，又是1600万英镑，用盐税和厘金抵押，但是俄国要求东北权益太多，法国要中国缅甸铁路权益，列强无法妥协，拖至1898年，由英德提供贷款，为期45年，这个贷款条件是德国占领胶州湾，法国占领湛江，俄国租借辽东半岛，英国租借香港新界99年。三笔甲午赔款贷款总值4300万英镑，几年后又有庚子赔款总值6750万英镑。袁世凯上台后有个民国二年大借款，实际上是把前清许多铁路贷款的旧债重组由新政权继续还旧债。后来北洋政府参战第一次世界大战，俄国十月革命不要这些债权，德国战败（21条把胶州湾割給日本）协约国看在中国派劳工参加欧洲战争的面上，免除部分庚子赔款，但是，免除部分不由中国支配，由列强支配用于中国，就是建立了清华大学和香港大学。
这些债务连本带利每月在上海汇丰银行交割，由于银价下跌，按照汇率还英镑实际还的银子要比日本要的赔款多很多，而且还要交汇丰债务管理费用。
如今西方经济危机了，它们并没有放弃以战争夺取中国财富的侥幸心理，它们还要再来一次甲午战争割中国一块肉，然后在中国伤口上放上水蛭，让中国永恒的淌血。所以，有了美日安全条约适合钓鱼岛的美国官方宣示。当今国际战争就是强权政治，拥有最大军事机器的美国就是强权政治中的强盗，而人大教授却担心国人疑虑。前一段也有人大教授支持袁腾飞的中国正经历两千年最黑暗的历史阶段的谬论。今天中国周边的军事势态就是百年屈辱历史延续下来的，当年压迫中国人民的列强还念念不忘瓜分中国的旧梦，并以军事乃至颜色革命等各种手段来妄图实现这个旧梦，而人大教授竟然出来捂着国人的眼睛。
甲午战争以后，中国旧民主主义革命的路子就被堵死了，所以才有了孙中山的联俄联共、扶助工农的三大政策，才有了毛泽东领导的新民主主义革命。毛泽东不承认一切旧债，把列强放在中国伤口上的水蛭拔掉了，才有了今天中国工业化和现代化的可能。什么人民币汇率问题，什么钓鱼岛问题，什么南沙问题，我们都看到西方妄图再重创中国，再在中国伤口上放上水蛭，再次打断中国发展进程，再次阻止中国发展，再来一次甲午战争。如果国人再次捂上眼睛，甲午战争的历史就会重演。
你妈在省府工作，真要饿死那么多人，你妈已够的上枪毙了！
三年灾荒期是众所周知的人灾。现在我们这些挨过饿的人还记忆犹新。
“新中国和历史比较，老百姓生活是改善了。和全世界比较，也是高于平均水平。”你说的是三年灾荒期还是现在？
三年灾荒期中国老百姓生活是最苦的，否则怎么饿死人？
现在，邓小平后的中国经济上实行的是资本主义。所以老百姓生活得到改善。
掩耳盗铃是欺人欺己。
听来心酸。
也许你列举数字不算啥。
Do you have numbers for the (abnormal) death during the cultural revolution (1966-1976), can you compare the number to the numbers during 1958-1961? You will find that 1958-1961 is much worse than 1966-1976.
"三年灾害”? What 灾害 are you talking about?
那要看你站在什么立场来说能否比较了
老百姓生活是好是坏，也没有什么标准？常言道：宁为太平狗，不作乱世人，说的就是和平时代好于战争时代。
我想，新中国和历史比较，老百姓生活是改善了。和全世界比较，也是高于平均水平。即无论横向比较还是纵向比较，新中国都是中国历史上对老百姓生活而言是最好的时期之一。
你说的无法比较，实际就是说不同时期不同国家用不同标准，没有客观标准，随便怎么捏都行。西方强权话语说“好”就是在“好”，说“坏”就是在“坏”，反正历史都有特殊性，都不可比较。前苏联解体后人均寿命减少了十年，都可以算作“正常死亡”。尤其是前南斯拉夫，美国投下贫铀弹，致使许多人患上癌症死亡，对一些人来说也是“正常死亡”也是“进步”。反正标准随便定，无需比较。
千千万万被饿死的人的冤魂，在天上注视着那些谎言粉饰罪恶的人。
The difference between Culture Revelation as well as three years of disaster and Nanking massacre is just the same as between US gun crimes and 911. One is due to social instability and bad government policies, and other is due to foreign invasion. During Culture Revolution, the death rate is much higher for government officials and CCP officials than the rate in other group. Saying communist China kills more people than Nanking massacre is just the same as saying Democratic America is killing more America than 911. During three years of disaster, many poor Chinese died of hunger, Chinese people know that, and Chinese government know that, and they all know something is not correct, just like US people know that so many gun crimes in US is not correct. There are more poor people died in three years of disaster than government officials is just like there are more poor people fall as gun crimes victims in US. There must be some communists died during three years of disasters, and many who died have relatives as communists. As we know, during civil war in China, it was the most poor who joint the Communist Party. 1959 was only 10 year after civil war and majority of Chinese population was still in countryside. At that time, most of government and party officials were come from the countryside and come from poor families. If there are someone who wants to killed Chinese people intentionally during 1959-1961 and Cultural Revolution, then it should be United States and Soviet Union. They succeed in putting economic sanction on China, which led to humanitarian disasters indirectly.
Communist China is bad. Chinese know it. But Chinese are not foolish enough to overthrow it, as they know that the present China is still the best among all other forms of governments they tried since Opium War. Since Opium War, Chinese tried democracy under Sun Yet-sent but all the Western countries, including democratic ones, just support local war lords in China to extent their state interest at the expense of Chinese democracy and at the expense of Chinese people. That’s why Dr. Sun turned to Soviet and welcomed Communist in China.
In the last a few decades, poverty population reduced all over the world, and China made the number one contribution in reducing world poverty. Many poor peasants of yesterday are rich entrepreneurs today in China, thanks to market economy adapted by Communist China. Regardless the label put on China as communist or capitalist, the present Chinese government works for the better of China and the world.
Go to hell!
Did 中国人民自己主导 1958-1961 ? Why you try so hard to smooth 1959-1962 out by quoting 1949-1979 ? In China's history, 1958-1961 should always be singled out, and should never be forgotten. Are you trying to challenge the numbers (20-40 million death from famine, without a major war, natural disaster or disease)? In which 3 years before 1949 do we have more people died from famine, without major war, natural disaster or disease)?
You may cheer China's achievement before and after that 3 year period but covering up that 3 years will only weaken your overall score. People who experienced the period are still alive and they are also on this web (WenxuCity, 润涛阎).
无论如何，都只说明中华民族灾难深重 - 面对吧，比粉饰要有意义。。。
that WAS the worst
我母亲当时在甘肃省政府工作, 她说那时候没有人去统计饿死人数, 但大家都知道在甘肃省起码上百万.
你言下之意是共产党使中国获得了60年和平. 新中国成立60年是世界的大环境是和平, 不是只有中国才有和平. 相反, 中国还在朝鲜战争中付出了几十万生命. 如果是国民党执政, 那次韩战基本上是可以避免的吧?
所谓鸦片战争打开了中国封闭的大门，是工业化的全球经济与中国自然经济的碰撞，是列强要把中国的资源和市场纳入全球经济体系之内。当然，有些人是对鸦片战争怀有敬意的，认为西方先进文明接纳中国落后文明有何不好？最好殖民三百年，中国就先进了。但是，西方是要中国的资源和市场，并不要中国享受这些资源，这就是我《物质循环的世界》系列里提出的全球化中的南北矛盾，北方把南方资源纳入全球大循环，而南方人民要挤入这个全球大循环。
这个矛盾，归结到国际政治层面上，就是中国现代化是有西方列强主导（殖民三百年）还是由中国人民自己主导。这个斗争自鸦片战争以来就一直持续至今。中国的工业化和现代化，从1840年至1949年就是由西方列强主导的，所谓半殖民统治，其结果是持续的贫困和战乱，战乱使得西方得以浑水摸鱼掠夺中国资源（包括人力资源），由于西方的掠夺造成贫困，由于贫困造成社会动乱和战争，贫困和战争互为因果循环百年。1949年至1979年三十年是中国摆脱西方控制时期，此前国民党政府已经收税收到70年代了，即40年代的国民党政府超前收税，制造了超级通货膨胀，把财富卷到台湾。新中国前三十年是美苏封锁的三十年。即中国现代化如果要由中国人民来主导，则西方就遏制中国现代化。这从现代化物质过程来说是退步了，就是西方拒绝中国融入全球经济，但是，这是有西方列强主导还是中国人民主导的转折阶段，是中国人有尊严地融入全球经济的基石。1979年至今是中国人民自己主导的现代化过程，是中国人民自己主导的融入国际分工的过程。中国现代化过程至今，依然有中国主导还是美国主导的斗争，但是，中国人民基本主导了这个发展。
三段论：1840－1949：西方主导中国近代化。1949－1979：中国主导中国近代化，但是受到孤立和封锁。1979至今，中国主导中国融入国际分工。
中国近代史是中国是在学习西方先进的工业文明的历史，这个过程在西方主导下是贫困和战乱，在中国自己主导下才得以迅速发展。