Jesus' Resurrected Body, the Atonement,
This conversation dealt with the resurrected body of Christ, the atonement, and a bit on what Muslim theology has to offer. It is brief, but it has value in the discussion of Christ.
Sometimes people just get stuck on an idea and have problems letting God's word change those ideas. We are all guilty of that one way or another. But, at least with the resurrection of Jesus, He rose in the same body He died in. Hey Matt
This is important because Paul says in 1 Cor. 15:14, "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain." This combined with Jesus' prophecy that He would raise His body in John 2:19-21 is proof that believing in the bodily resurrection of Christ, is one of the essential doctrines of Christianity.
John 2:19-21, "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21But he spake of the temple of his body."
Gil: Can I ask a question?
Matt: You just did
Gil: How about another? A third one I mean. Heheh
Matt: Now you've got it. What's up?
Gil: Okay, Well actually, I've got one specific question: Is Jesus eternally human?
Matt: He is now.
Gil: Okay. So, you believe that He is human?
Gil: As he sits next to the Father? and the Father is spirit….and the Spirit is spirit
Gil: But the Son is human and spirit?
Matt: The son is both God and man. He has two 2 natures.
Gil: I personally believe that he was man for 33 years because in the Bible it says that God is Spirit and not a man.
Matt: Do you go to church? If so, which one?
Gil: Reformed Church of America. My belief is unorthodox.
Matt: Okay... Bible lesson time. After the resurrection, Jesus retained the scars, right?
Matt: He had a body of flesh and bones after the resurrection, right?
Gil: Yes, but he also walked through walls and stuff. Right? He had a supernatural body.
Matt: He did not walk through walls. He just appeared....
Gil: Well that's not a human behavior. He didn't do that before he resurrected.
Matt: It is the behavior of a resurrected body... We do not have resurrected bodies right now.
Gil: I know. But I'm saying I don't believe the resurrection body is a human body. It's a supernatural spirit body.
Matt: If it isn't human, then what is it?
Matt: 1 Cor. 15 says it is a resurrected body... Flesh and bones...
Matt: Jesus was recognized and he retained the scars of his crucifixion. Also, consider this... Jesus prophesied that he would raise His body, the very same one that was crucified (John 2:19-21).
Matt: Therefore, his same body was raised....
Gil: What about when He ascended?
Matt: Same body.
Matt: If you deny his physical resurrection, you are in trouble.
Gil: But the bible says that God is Spirit not man. I believe that he physically resurrected.
Matt: The Father is a spirit. John 4:24 speaks of God as the Father... Jesus, rose in the same body he died in, right?
Gil: How do you know it meant the Father?
Matt: Because that is how John refers to God in his gospel. God is the Father. The word is Jesus. Ref. John 1:1,14, 18; 6:46 for the pattern of usage.
Gil: Okay, Can I be blunt with you?
Gil: I used to be really unsure about the trinity and how it's all set up. I read James White's Forgotten Trinity which helped me tons...
Gil: But now its like it all seems like weird to me again. Two of my best friends are Muslim. And its soooo appealing to me.
Matt: How are your sins forgiven?
Gil: Through the blood of Jesus and God's grace.
Matt: Do the Muslims have an atonement for your sins to offer you?
Gil: Yes, the mercy of Allah.
Matt: Mercy is not atonement.
Gil: Um okay.
Matt: Atonement removes sin (1 John 2:2; Heb. 9:26).
Gil: His mercy provides atonement.
Matt: Atonement means to remove, to cover the sin... in Christianity, it is by the sacrifice of God Himself. This guarantees your forgiveness.... Jesus walked the earth, rose from the dead, walked on water, etc.
Gil: I agree
Matt: He said He was God in flesh... He atoned..... Can Islam compare to that?
Gil: When did He say he was God in flesh? (Just so I can tell my Muslims friends the verse.)
Matt: John 8:58 is where Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM."
Gil: I know about John 8:58 and John 10:30. But He never said "I am God in flesh."
Matt: What would YOU think, if you were a Jew, knew where God said I AM in the OT [Exodus 3:14] and then you have this guy standing in front of you (who walks on water, calms storms, etc.) and then he says to you, "Before Abraham was, I AM." What would you think Jesus meant by this?
Gil: That He is God, which would explain why they tried to stone him. But He never said it flat out.
Matt: If He was saying He was God, and He was right there in the flesh, then what was He claiming?
Matt: Now, do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead in the same body He died in?
Gil: Yes. But as far as the ascension goes, I don't know.
Matt: Why would his body NOT be a body at his ascension? Also, in 1 Tim. 2:5, it says that Jesus is a man.
Gil: But the Bible says God is a spirit.
Matt: In Acts 7:55-60, Stephen has a vision and sees Jesus... how would he recognize Jesus if it wasn't in His body?
Gil: I see your points…. Interesting. I gotta get running I will catch you later. Matt, thanks for talking to me.
Gil: Peace and Grace