我对西藏骚乱事件的看法
热闹爱好者
首先我觉得中国政府在这件事情上是严重失职的。第一它没有监测到这件事情的发生或者没有采取得力的措施去制止它的发生;第二在事情发生时没有及时采取坚决措施防止事态的扩大,致使18(更多?)个无辜群众死亡,数百人受伤;第三在事情结束(或第一阶段结束)后没有正确报道说明这件事情。
其中没有保护好18个无辜群众的生命错误最严重,任何的考虑(反对或支持西藏独立、保护或反对奥运会)都不应该优先于人民群众的生命安全。
而没有正确地报道说明这件事情却暴露出政府的愚昧与无能。
首先强调政府没有开枪就是极端错误的,随后又承认确实开枪了就更是愚蠢!其实开枪与否根本就不应该是关注的重点,重点应该是当时政府为什么没有采取有力措施制止骚乱,保护人民群众的生命财产安全?在我看来看着自己的人民被暴徒殴打致死而不开枪才是严重的失职!
然后把这次骚乱和达赖喇嘛联系起来我认为也是错误的。到现在为止我还没有看到非常确凿的证据证明这一点,而且这样也毫无必要的把这次骚乱事件引入到了关于西藏独立的争论之中去了。我认为这次事件到现在为止就是一起典型骚乱事件,将主要责任人以谋杀等刑事罪名起诉就可以了,一切让法庭去决定。该死刑死刑,该坐牢坐牢,该释放释放。
挑选18家媒体去西藏采访也是非常错误的做法。我认为如果西藏已经安全了,那么就应该允许平常可以去的媒体自由采访。而如果西藏还不安全,那么任何媒体都不应该允许去采访。一切都应该只从安全的角度考虑,而不要一味屈从于外界的压力。
我认为和外国政府讨论这次事件也属多余,但是我不认为我们应该指责外国政府干涉内政。我认为我们需要的是告诉外国政府这是刑事案件,一切由公安部门和法院系统去处理,请他们不要干涉我们的司法。
其次我认为我们很多海外华人在这件事情上处理也不是非常正确。
第一我认为很多华人对西方媒体和西方人(实际上应该说任何非华人)有不切实际的想法。他们总认为西方媒体和西方人对中国有偏见,想去纠正。而我觉得这根本不是偏见的问题,这是立场的问题。
确实有很多西方媒体和很多西方人对中国有很多的不了解,但是我们对他们,或者对中国自己、或者对其他中国人、甚至对你身边的很多人又有多少的了解呢?仔细想想,我们就应该知道,我们对别人的看法,或者别人对我们的看法,很多时候不是取决于我们对别人了解或者不了解,而是取决于我们和他们的立场。而我们能改变他们的立场吗?我相信除非我们能够改变别人的国籍,否则我们永远改变不了别人的立场。呵呵,在西藏,我们确实改变了他们的国籍,但是其中有一些人的立场却还没有改变啊。
所以我希望那些还想改变西方媒体和西方人的华人面对现实一点,对那些有偏见的报道一笑了之罢。
第二我认为我们海外华人在这件事情上面不要去和本地人讨论西藏是否属于中国的问题,而应该强调,无论西藏是否应该独立,残杀无辜群众都是严重的犯罪,都必须被制止被审判。无论开枪与否,政府都必须保护无辜群众的生命安全。
第三我很佩服那些组织起来去游行示威的海外华人,但是考虑到我上面提到的第一点,我觉得这是对牛谈琴,我们是改变不了西方人的立场的,何必浪费精力呢?如果确实想游行示威,我也建议将议题集中在强调严惩杀人凶手上来,而不要去强调西藏是中国的一部分。现在西藏已经是中国的一部分,我们有何必去强调呢?这样我们也可以避免永远讨论西方媒体给我们设定的议题。
第四对于西方所谓抵制奥运会的问题,我觉得我们也应该轻松对待。在现在这个时间,已经没有任何其他城市可以取代北京来主办这场奥运会了,抵制北京奥运会的损失并不只有中国承担。所以,对于任何提出抵制奥运会的人士,我们只需要说声遗憾就可以了。
至于西藏问题本身,我想只要还有语言文化的差异,它永远也不会有彻底解决的一天。想想英伦三岛罢。
是的,文学城上和中国海内外很多其他论坛里很多网友的激烈言论很容易激化汉藏之间的矛盾,这是非常令人痛心的。实际上,在拉萨和其他一些地方的暴乱中,参与闹事的只是一小撮藏人,绝大部分的藏人(包括以藏人为主体的西藏自治区政府)是反对暴乱的。在暴乱中也有被烧死的藏族姑娘,也有藏族朋友掩护汉族朋友的。我们不应该让一小撮人引起的暴乱演变成汉藏之间的冲突。
我们当然可以说任何我们想说的话,但是我们应该选择对我们有利、对方也更容易认同的地方着手。
西藏从语言文化人种上都和中国有很大差别。和朝鲜,越南,台湾,新疆,外蒙古,甚至日本比起来,西藏和中国的差别更大。但是既然西藏已经是中国的一部分,就没有放弃的理由。要治理好西藏是要高度智慧的。我感觉,愤青们的行为,只会使形势恶化。
My feeling is people in the US truly don't like the GOVERNMENT of China, not the Chinese people or China as a nation. India also and will consume a lot of resources. I never heard anything about India as a threat.
Well you may say because India is on their side or something even worse. Then why can't we be on their side? After all, all the stuff the "west" is asking China to do ain't so bad, democracy, freedom of press. We used to be on their side in World War II.
You my again say but those things are not fit for Chinese reality. Well if they worked for Taiwan, Hongkong, South Korea and Japan, why are we Chinese so inferior and can not make it work?
Think my friend, think.
这也不用,那也不用。就让人家随便说啊。人都像你这么沉得住气, 拿来这么多事儿。
事后分析,和遇事及时处理是两回事。
从这篇文章中看出中国的希望(一个国家的水准取决於人民的水准)
此文章不仅精确
难得的是有自己的见解
不像很多其它文章只是人云亦云
自以为很有见识充其量不过就是不会思考的传声筒
中国人不是一直强调爱好和平及以德服人吗?
就算这次事件是像很多人所相信的由西方挑起要抹黑中国人┅┅等等
以这样的方式解决
不就中了西方的计了吗?
这次事件中完全看不到以德服人更不用说爱好和平了!
封锁消息
挑选媒体去采访
最後又洋洋得意的说西方媒体报导造假
这就是秧秧大国的气度吗?
毫无疑问中国政府作过很多罪恶的事情,尤其是在改革开放前,而且现在它也还在继续犯错。
但是我仍然在某种程度上继续相信中国政府,因为正是这个政府,使中国摆脱了近百年的屈辱,使中国有了核武器和洲际导弹,有了基本完整的工业体系,使得我们摆脱了象南斯拉夫、伊拉克那样的命运。让我们现在终于有了一个发展的机会。
世界上没有完美的政府,我们也没有太多的选择。
这是资源缺乏导致的竞争的结果。我们要生存就必须奋斗,没有别人可以依靠。
try to get into chinese local website like www.sina.com.cn, www.soh.com, and you will find those sites are reporting totally different things from what we heard these days.
is it necessary to do the media control like that in China? the government really think people would then believe in what the government bullshits about.
there are certainly western medias deliverately reporting wrong information about the tibaten riots but is the chinese government fair and honest???
its a dirty world and why everybody cares so much! fucck it...........
苏联的解体谁干的?美 国.
如今中国经济在变强,美国经济今后5年或将难有起色.在这种背境下,美国会寻找外务能刺激国内经济复苏同时转移国内民众视野的做法--战征.
战征有因,无因可制造--这是发动战事国的通行做法.
西藏--台海-朝鲜半岛---世界能原物资争夺:美国不会对待中国像对待它的同盟国那样,让你兼并它的能原,安全设备等公司.
明白了这些,将不难理解为何西方媒体丑化中国.
望各位明察.
ZT: 卫星图像--武警假冒喇嘛造乱
http://www.youpai.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3950&sid=badc8a26da42414e6304c57c6c546fea
Chinese Soldiers Posing as Monks in Tibet
This is not an uncommon 'tactical move' from the Chinese government as could be seen from the 2003 annual TCHRD Report
Canada Free Press [Friday, March 21, 2008 10:20]
Brit spies confirm Dalai Lama's report of staged violence
http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/chinese-orchestrating-riots-tibet.htm
By Gordon Thomas
London, March 20 - Britain's GCHQ, the government communications agency that electronically monitors half the world from space, has confirmed the claim by the Dalai Lama that agents of the Chinese People's Liberation Army, the PLA, posing as monks, triggered the riots that have left hundreds of Tibetans dead or injured.
GCHQ analysts believe the decision was deliberately calculated by the Beijing leadership to provide an excuse to stamp out the simmering unrest in the region, which is already attracting unwelcome world attention in the run-up to the Olympic Games this summer.
For weeks there has been growing resentment in Lhasa, Tibet's capital, against minor actions taken by the Chinese authorities.
Increasingly, monks have led acts of civil disobedience, demanding the right to perform traditional incense burning rituals. With their demands go cries for the return of the Dalai Lama, the 14th to hold the high spiritual office.
Committed to teaching the tenets of his moral authority---peace and compassion---the Dalai Lama was 14 when the PLA invaded Tibet in 1950 and he was forced to flee to India from where he has run a relentless campaign against the harshness of Chinese rule.
But critics have objected to his attraction to film stars. Newspaper magnate Rupert Murdoch has called him: "A very political monk in Gucci shoes."
Discovering that his supporters inside Tibet and China would become even more active in the months approaching the Olympic Games this summer, British intelligence officers in Beijing learned the ruling regime would seek an excuse to move and crush the present unrest.
That fear was publicly expressed by the Dalai Lama. GCHQ's satellites, geo-positioned in space, were tasked to closely monitor the situation.
The doughnut-shaped complex, near Cheltenham racecourse, is set in the pleasant Cotswolds in the west of England. Seven thousand employees include the best electronic experts and analysts in the world. Between them they speak more than 150 languages. At their disposal are 10,000 computers, many of which have been specially built for their work.
The images they downloaded from the satellites provided confirmation the Chinese used agent provocateurs to start riots, which gave the PLA the excuse to move on Lhasa to kill and wound over the past week.
What the Beijing regime had not expected was how the riots would spread, not only across Tibet, but also to Sichuan, Quighai and Gansu provinces, turning a large area of western China into a battle zone.
------------------------------------------------------------
Yesterday (March 27, 2008) His Holiness the Dalai Lama spoke directly about the troubles in Tibet, asking all supporters worldwide to help in any way they can, providing that this happens in a strictly non-violent way. He explained that this is a moment of crisis, and that it is all of us, rather than the Tibetans in exile, who have the potential to shift the situation.
His Holiness specifically stated, not for the first time, that Tibetan dharma cannot survive without Tibetan freedom. He explained that only Tibetan Buddhism has been able to preserve the full Nalanda tradition and its message of universal compassion, its techniques to promote inner values and its teachings on interdependence, with their extraordinary potential to bring peace and harmony to the modern world.
One of the only ways that we can influence the decisions of the Chinese government is to show that there is widespread and increasing public condemnation of their actions in Tibet. How can we do this? How can we link together all the feelings of individuals, who by themselves may feel powerless, but as a group could have an unforgettable impact?
We have a simple suggestion. We all want to stand up for Tibet. Let's do it, literally. Every day, let's commit to simply standing up. just for a few moments, with either a printed or digital photo of the Tibetan flag in our hands. Individually or in a group. Quietly or noisily. In the most creative and spectacular way imaginable. On the street, in schools, on trains and buses, in the workplace, in bars and restaurants. Let's be visible, newsworthy, fun and contagious. We want to make our feelings public throughout the world, and we want millions of people to join in.
March 31st has been designated an international day of action by the International Tibet Support Network. Will you stand up that day, wherever you happen to be? And then continue, as long as the situation lasts.
We are not only standing up for one country that is experiencing oppression, but for every act of injustice and repression that has happened personally to us, or to other people in the world.
This is something we can all do for Tibet. Who can you phone, text or email and encourage to join in? Can we make this happen across the globe, particularly during the next weeks, before it is too late? We need your help and are very grateful for anything you can do to make this happen.
With a big prayer for peace in Tibet
Valentina and Alison
Spread at the request of Lama Zopa Rinpoche
福兮祸所依,祸兮福所至。原本西方用来攻击中国的希藏,现在反而成了中国人团结的力量
I hope you are not right, but quite possibly you are! Anyway I just wrote my thoughts. 但求心之所安。
西藏已经是中国的领土,为什么要去争论是不是呢?从来都是胜者王,败者寇,就像台湾,你以为争论一下,台湾人就甘心被大陆统一?做梦吧。人家不敢独立,是因为怕大陆的飞弹!!
这里有一个身份的问题和观感的问题:
身份的问题在于,在菲律宾为菲律宾的事务游行示威 和 在美国加拿大欧洲为汉藏民族的问题(跟美国加拿大欧洲普通民众没有直接关系)游行示威是大不同的。
观感的问题在于,西方很多人认为西藏人民是弱小的一方,你在这里举行(关于西藏是中国的一部分的)游行示威是怎么回事?所以我说如果一定要游行示威也要集中在要求惩罚凶手上面。
这是我所读到过的有关“西藏事件”最理性的一篇文章,大顶特顶一下!
really miss mr mao now, if he is here today, damn those tibetans dont even dare to show up in the street.
It is horrible. There is no fact, there are footing, standing, seat, and status. How about bias? Sometimes,people's experiences biased their outlook ( a point of view, an attitude ) and Life . . . It tends to respond to our outlook, to shape itself to meet our expectations.
How is the expectation going, like 西方媒体或西方人,温总理 or 达赖?
3月中旬开始的西藏事件(不是单纯的314啊,就象89学运,不是单纯的64哈,因果关系)没及时处理,是因为领导们在专心致志地开会(党代会,人大会,政协会,决定自己的位置和前途呀,马虎不得)。
大陆本来想把西藏问题捂住盖住,因为领导们一门心思想搞好北京奥运会,为“盛世”挂匾,为自己清史留名造势,不希望这些“小事”影响和谐社会。其实北京奥运会始作俑者是早已下狱的陈希同,十年奥运是古都北京又一次的“文化大革命”的浩劫。
不想西方媒体在西藏信息不全面时就发言引起部分海外华人反弹,迫使大陆政府不得不出面处理西藏问题。海外一些华人给大陆领导层出难题,为奥运会准备添乱呀。(周末去不去游行示威还是请示报告领馆为宜,哈哈。)
君不知,现在是“和谐”社会,为办奥运会“稳定”压倒一切,“安定团结”是领导层梦寐以求的头等大事。出了“事”要尽快捂起来,最好是“大事化小,小事化了”,你好我好,大家嘻嘻哈哈混过奥运会,其他的以后再说。告诫各位少给领导们添乱为宜。
比如台湾问题,十五年来大陆坚持“九二共识就是一个中国---中华人民共和国”,台湾则从早期坚持“九二共识一中各表”(中华民国和中华人民共和国同属一个中国)。因为对“九二共识”都没有公识,从李登辉到陈水扁就在台独的道路上越走越远。当国民党本土化后马英九也高喊“台独是一个选项”并大选胜利后,大陆从“反分裂”“不惜武统”的强硬态度又退回到承认“九二共识一中各表”。估计这个表态只是拖延而已,留给下人领导人的和稀泥罢了。
西藏问题,台湾问题,大陆问题,其实就是一个“民族,民权,民生”问题,只要想解决问题就会找到办法。问题是领导层想不想解决,民众层敢不敢“用鸡蛋碰石头”。
中国最大的问题在于“国民”,有什么样的国民才会有什么样的政府。海外华人不管呼吁“民运”还是“爱国”,都是对领导层的“添乱”。。。从梁启超的“变革”,康有为的“改良”,到孙文“共和”,蒋中正的“攘外必先安内”,毛泽东的“枪杆子里面出政权”,华国锋的“两个凡是”,邓小平的“黑猫白猫能抓住老鼠就是好猫”,胡耀邦的“破除迷信解放思想”,江泽民的“三个代表”,胡锦涛的“以民为本”。。。百年过去了,仍然应验了代代相传的“民智未开”。。。还是寄希望于下个世纪吧。
我也觉得,中国政府这次严重失职,完全被动,事到如今除了重复一些毫无新意的宣传还没有拿出有利的应对措施来。只要看这个表现就知道他们还是不会吸取教训,所有的矛盾仍然没有解决,那么就难说什么时候还有下一次。
一、把母国的政治引入到归化国在任何一个国家都是忌讳,(这也是50年代中国政府不承认双重国籍的主要原因)我非常支持华人参与当地政治,但是却对在归化国举行游行示威等手段来支持中国政府(我们的母国)非常保留。有很多事情可以做却不适合说,尤其是大声说。
二、很多西方人是非常支持达赖喇嘛和西藏独立的,当然这跟达赖喇嘛的魅力无关,(实际上正好相反的是,达赖喇嘛的所谓魅力完全来自于西方的支持)而是和我一再强调的立场有关。他们不是不知道农奴制,他们不是不知道西藏即使独立也必须依靠一个大国,但是他们就是要支持达赖喇嘛和西藏独立,而这一切就是为了对付中国。在这种情况下,我们有怎么能说服他们呢?
三、强调惩罚打砸抢的犯罪分子、维持法律秩序是我们最有力的话题。以言论观点论罪在西方不流行(除非你违反了他们的爱国主义),但是维持法治在这里却大有市场。
一、虽然这是一起政治性事件和治安性事件,但是我们尽量要忽略它的政治性,而主要从社会治安这个角度来处理这个事件,不依言论定罪,而以行为定罪;
二、我不认为存在需要我们去教育的西方媒体或西方人,当然我也需要在适当的时候向我们身边的非中国人提出我们对西藏骚乱事件的看法,但是我不希望我们把话题停留在西藏是否应该独立,我认为我们讨论的话题应该是打砸抢的犯罪分子是否应该受到惩罚的问题。
但是游行示威活动是有必要的,方向应该定在抗议暴力,揭发藏族暴民打砸抢烧的真相上。至于西藏是中国的一部分不必刻意强调,也没必要和西方人解释,本来就是嘛,就好比没人会和街坊邻居一个个的解释我弟弟和我是一家人(即便家里有些矛盾)一样?说了反而别人觉得你心虚。自己家里的事,本来就没有啥好说的,邻居服不服,我不管,那是邻居自己的事,我没法控制。